Difference between heads 1127f vs 1127r vs 1052r

[BaveR]

Hi guys whats the difference between the heads of a 1127f, 1127r and a 1052r ( no shimtype  )
Im planning to do a swap, a 1127f on my 1127r(shimtype) 

[oilyspanner]

I guess you are tuning the head ? - the answer depends what you want, or are going to do.
The shim heads flow the best as standard, they have a raised floor entry to the port bowl which aids entry past the valve, they're also designed to fit with carb boots that fit the 40mm cv carbs. The only reason people change them is to allow lumpy cams to be fitted, then there's a risk of a shim floating out of the recess they sit in with stg 2 cams and greater.

The 1052 has smaller valves and doesn't flow as well as the 1127 (non shim)head - I believe the F head is the same as the 1127, but has mild cams.

If you want bolt on gains, the short stroke 750 heads have the large valves and smaller head volume, so bumps up the compression, which gives more power across the range.

[BaveR]

Sept 12, 2014 7:34:37 GMT oilyspanner said:

I guess you are tuning the head ? - the answer depends what you want, or are going to do.
The shim heads flow the best as standard, they have a raised floor entry to the port bowl which aids entry past the valve, they're also designed to fit with carb boots that fit the 40mm cv carbs. The only reason people change them is to allow lumpy cams to be fitted, then there's a risk of a shim floating out of the recess they sit in with stg 2 cams and greater.

The 1052 has smaller valves and doesn't flow as well as the 1127 (non shim)head - I believe the F head is the same as the 1127, but has mild cams.

If you want bolt on gains, the short stroke 750 heads have the large valves and smaller head volume, so bumps up the compression, which gives more power across the range.

Thanks for the advice, my idea is making a torque monster instead of a HP monster. I heard something aboat benefits of a "rocker" type head for the valve setting. And there are more aftermarket stuff like cams for sale.

A 750 "dothead" is no option I think, because of my slabby1100 frame which has little clearance with the carbs.
Also I heard something aboat "non" shimtype f vs r head, that the r head has more flow?

[oilyspanner]

I haven't got as much info on the GSX1127F, but it seems to be the same as screw/locknut 1127R heads (apart from cams). A lot of owners like the 36mm carbs on their 1127s - really good pick-up in the first half of the rev range.
A big bore kit will bump up the torque very nicely, costs a bit though.
Finding people who are good at Oil Cooled head porting is getting hard these days - everything is down-draught.
For cheaper money get the carbs set up well, fit an ignition advancer, add a couple of teeth at the back (or 1 at the front)sprocket and it'll pull pretty well ! (I take it you've got a good exhaust on the bike)

[BaveR]

Setup right now is 1127R (shimtype), 38mm with Tovamikit, pipercross duals, Laser 4-2-1, got an yoshi advancer 3'. So it goes like shit, but i want to make a 1216 with a locknut head.

I am going to buy a 1127F engine in a week or so. Thats why i ask.

[gixxerharry]

Fit 38mm carbs and forget about the cams

Dont use the advancer if you want more low end torque

[BaveR]

Sept 12, 2014 13:08:47 GMT gixxerharry said:

Fit 38mm carbs and forget about the cams

Dont use the advancer if you want more low end torque

Harry I have fitted the 38mm with Tovami set. 
What do you mean aboat "Forget aboat the cams". You mean the cams of the 1100f or the 1100m ?

[clivegto]

Just fit the f motor for low down grunt and power, the m cams will not fit the dot or earlier heads.

But a set of cams can make a big difference to how the motor responds.

Skim and ported head makes loads more even with standard pistons.

Mr 7/11 springs to mind.

[BaveR]

Sept 12, 2014 19:52:26 GMT clivegto said:

Just fit the f motor for low down grunt and power, the m cams will not fit the dot or earlier heads.

But a set of cams can make a big difference to how the motor responds.

Skim and ported head makes loads more even with standard pistons.

Mr 7/11 springs to mind.

"Mr 7/11 springs to mind" what do you mean by that? (someone who did a nice build?)

[clivegto]

Mr 7/11 had a 1100f motor in a 750 slabby he was also the founding member of OSS.

[BaveR]

Sept 15, 2014 11:52:04 GMT clivegto said:

Mr 7/11 had a 1100f motor in a 750 slabby he was also the founding member of OSS.

Ah I red (is that correct english for read in the past?? lol) aboat it on the old site. Do you know where I can find it now?

[gixxerharry]

I mean dont bother whit other cam in the M motor......a f is a boring old man motor (had one in my bike and i did not liked it so i fitted a M head to it).....A f motor is a bit better than a Bandit but not as good as a M motor

Mr 7/11 may had a F motor in his 7/11 but i bet he does not had it whit stock cams (ie he fitted R cams or R racing cams)

The kit you have in the carbs is for a 750 motor so i dont think its good for a 1100 motor

Why do you need more torque?.....you can down shift if you want more power....i can ride 30-40 km/u in 5th gear whit no problems,i can drive away in first gear whit out turning the throttle so why do you want more?

I think a Laser exhaust is the same as a B&M and those headers suck......find your self a good Akrapovic or Shuller exhaust

[BaveR]

Hey Harry You can bother me anytime, because I asked a question so than I have to cope with comment ;-)
The reason that I want to swap is because for the M head there are no aftermarket cams and second because its much easier to set the valves.
So if The F head and a K head are the same except for the cams I first can experiment with the F head (which I can Buy cheap). And after a while I can look for R of racing cams.

Brings me to the next question, are there racing cams designed for torque instead of horsepower?
(By the way the tovamikit is special for a 1100 with 38ers, must say it drives very well, but I just am looking for some future work)

[oilyspanner]

Cams move the torque (peak torque and where most of it is)around the rev range, Bandit cams make it earlier in the rev range - R cams later in the rev range.
CC increase adds torque, more compression adds torque - the M motor makes very good peak torque.
Shim heads are very easy to set the clearances, if you have a shim set.... the screw and lock nut more convenient.
It sounds like you want your torque to 'come in' earlier, this will be at the expense of horse power, but you won't have any more torque by fitting mellow cams, just where most of it is.
A big bore kit is the best way to increase torque (larger capacity and more compression)and will have the effect of making the standard cams appear more mellow too - the revs peak torque is made will move down the rev range a bit.
The cheapest way to get what I believe you want is to fit a Bandit 12 motor and the 36mm carbs - you will get good money for your M motor and 40mm carbs.
The best solution would be a 1216cc kit, more torque everywhere.
Changing the head and then fitting several lots of cams doesn't make much sense - I'm sure people with big bore kits will tell you how happy they are with their extra torque.

[BaveR]

Ok a lot of information now, I think I will stick with the M or if I can sell it for a Nice price it will go.
Just keep looking for a K, and fit in the winter a 1216 kit with maybe som work at the head. And so I will have two nice engines.
Guus Thanks for the advice for now!! ;-)