boogieman
Oviraptor
Posts: 14 
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Post by boogieman on Jan 30, 2015 7:09:46 GMT
Hi,
I have an 1100H with an L/M ?? (bucket and shim) 1127 in it.
I run Penrite HPR15 diesel oil in it as it's designed for older 4 stroke wet clutch bikes and it works great in my Katana.
Just recently I rebuilt the clutch master cylinder and about 500km before that I had used the HPR oil in the GSXR for the first time.
Since doing the clutch MC it has started slipping under hard acceleration.
I'm not sure if I stuffed something when I did the clutch or if the oil is making the clutch slip.
The oil ASI rating is CH-4 SL.
Cheers in advance.
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Post by katana on Jan 30, 2015 8:21:40 GMT
Maybe good oil but to viscous for a GSXR which should have 10w-40 is first thought!
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boogieman
Oviraptor
Posts: 14
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Post by boogieman on Jan 30, 2015 8:42:37 GMT
Going off the oil viscosity chart in the service manual it says a 15W-50 for the temp range here in Australia is good.
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Post by gsf884r on Jan 30, 2015 9:43:42 GMT
In the UK 10-40 oil is the norm', SEMI-synthetic do not use fully-synthetic, as this can cause all sorts of cluth faults depending on what the clutch is made from, I buy a middle of the road 10-40 semi-synth, 25ltrs at a time as the same stuff gets used in my 884, my delica and the wife's corsa (my mate even uses the same stuff in his 300bhp supercharged triumph rocket).
Is ther any freeplay at the lever or does it fill like its pushing straight away?
Just crack off the clutch bleed nipple an if fluid has a quick 'squirt' then there is slight pressure in the line, it should just dribble.
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Post by gsf884r on Jan 30, 2015 11:12:49 GMT
If your using hpr your best bet is probably there gas10 10w-50 semi-synth.
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boogieman
Oviraptor
Posts: 14
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Post by boogieman on Jan 30, 2015 12:12:15 GMT
It does start pulling real early in letting the clutch out. I'll try cracking it to see if it has a head of pressure.
Cheers
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Post by gsf884r on Jan 30, 2015 12:22:44 GMT
Slipping on the power and slight dragging with lever pulled right back would normally be down to oil.
So many Additives now to 'cling on'(think about the castrol magnatec advert) trying to prevent engine wear can cause both clutch slip and drag at the same time.
That why if your buying expensive oil you buy bike oil (its formulated for wet clutches) or buy cheaper car oils.
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boogieman
Oviraptor
Posts: 14
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Post by boogieman on Jan 30, 2015 12:39:43 GMT
This stuff is apparently formulated for 4 stroke wet clutch bikes. It works great in my Kat.
That's why I'm wondering if I'd stuffed up with the clutch MC.
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Post by oilyspanner on Jan 30, 2015 13:45:29 GMT
Fully synthetics can be used, a bunch of tests have been done and can be found out there - all showed that bikes that had worn clutches could slip, but it wasn't caused by the oil, they were waiting to slip. If the oil doesn't have a load of friction modifiers it should be okay. Fully synthetics degrade at a slower rate and release heat more readily than more standard oils, which would be a good thing. At less than 1000 miles oils will have degraded quite drastically in some cases, synthetics come through closer to spec. at this time - degradation isn't quite so marked after this point.
I have a semi-synthetic in mine, but I might try Mobil 1 at some stage - Mobil 1 is being used by thousands of O/C bikes around the globe, successfully so and it doesn't even claim to be suitable for wet clutch bikes - when analysed, Mobil 1 was found to have a low level of friction modifiers, similar to top m/c oils. Rotella oil has been used a fair bit too, even on tuned bikes (in the US mostly)
There's a lot of advertising in the oil industry and it's tough to see through the b-llshit . The only thing I wonder about with the diesel oil you're using, is the amount of detergent additives that will be present - but I haven't come across any independent test for that.
When I was single and better off(!), I used to use Motul 300V a lot, my bikes were pretty new, but absolutely no problems - smelt nice too !
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Post by wsn03 on Jan 30, 2015 14:18:17 GMT
At less than 1000 miles oils will have degraded quite drastically in some cases, synthetics come through closer to spec. at this time - degradation isn't quite so marked after this point. First time I've read that on a forum! I've posted it before, but a bike I knew of did 150,000 miles with no more than a set of new clutch plates. The garage said the guy insisted on an oil change every 2,000 miles. I've always changed mine every 12 months or 2,000 miles since, and to be fair my road bikes have never developed a fault or any sort of wear (engines are squeaky clean too). A friend of mine always reckoned the discolouring of oil was a sign of the degredation. |
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Post by captain chaos on Jan 30, 2015 14:37:48 GMT
A friend of mine always reckoned the discolouring of oil was a sign of the degredation. when I studied automotive engineering in Holland, I learned that the colour of oil means f*ck all. Good oils can be black after 50 miles, cheap oils can still be gold after many hundreds. And one very important aspect of motorcycle oils is that it doesn't foam in the engine with the gearbox and crankshaft and clutch beating the crap out of it. We tested car oils in bike engines, you would be surprised of the amount of foam after a few minutes at 10.000 RPM. All that air does nothing good for lubrication. |
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Post by gsf884r on Jan 30, 2015 14:50:14 GMT
I change my oil every 4 months or 2000miles, which ever comes soonest.
Mobil 1 was used by triumph a few use back (don't know if it still is).
As for fully-synth I did put it in an old NSR125 after rebuilding the gearbox (treated the poor old thing) did 7miles with it, clutch played up big time, dumped it out went back to semi and within 2-3miles it was lovely again. That was a m/c fully-synthetic so I never tried it again.
Just my experience with it.
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Post by bluedog59 on Jan 30, 2015 16:45:06 GMT
I run semi-synth in my B12 and the clutch will slip at about 5,000 rpm until it's warm then it's fine. Acts as a reminder to let it warm up properly as most engine wear happens in the first 10 mins.
I would be more worried about it being a diesel oil. When I was younger and skint, I had access to free diesel oil and ran a big a/c motor on it. It started using oil at less mileage that others of the same engine and got to a ltr every 750 miles. There may have been other factors but I wouldn't use a diesel oil again.
Use a decent 4 stroke oil with a JASO spec (Google it), change it and the filter regularly and they'll stay far better for longer. It may seem expensive but have you priced up a set of rings/ head and cams/ crank and bearings ?
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Post by Kristjan on Jan 30, 2015 19:21:38 GMT
Im not an oil engineer, but I'd be instantly concerned about the fact that I've never seen a diesel engine that goes 11000 rpm and sometimes operates at coolant temperatures over 100 deg celsius when thinking about using diesel oil in my bike. Not even thinking about wet clutch yet!
Oil cooled motor is different, but deffo not cooler running than teaboiler.
I put Motul 7100 in my gix, dont know about clutch slippage yet but it's pretty old by now amyway, so no worries at all.
I never use car oil because cheapest m/c minerals cost just over five euros per litre (valvoline). I used to put this in my forest/field bike long ago.
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boogieman
Oviraptor
Posts: 14
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Post by boogieman on Jan 30, 2015 22:45:32 GMT
The story behind using it is that modern oils have had some really good contents removed so they can run in cars with catalytic converters.
Diesel oils with a CH-4 or CI-4 still have all the good stuff left in them such as zinc etc.
I started putting it in my tired Katana when I was using Motul 3100 and using a litre per 1000km and it dropped to about 100ml per 1000km.
The cost wasn't a concern, although the Penrite seems to be made here in Australia which my help keep it cheaper.
I may have to try something new. Cheers.
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