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Post by andrey on Feb 18, 2015 12:44:04 GMT
Hmmmm...A friend of mine tell me, that with osciloscope is possible to compare two signals....from coils and from VR sensor.
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Post by nitro on Feb 18, 2015 14:49:40 GMT
Yes, friend of min also do this. But I also changes to 24-2 trigger.
The Ignijet also work with 4 lobe trigger, but throttle response become worse, the less lobe the trigger has
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Post by arttu on Feb 18, 2015 15:08:00 GMT
Low number of teeth on trigger may cause trouble with starting. Since the crank speed varies a lot during cranking the ECU may have difficulties to detect the missing tooth. Car engines are often easier in this sense because they have heavier crank and therefore more stable crank speed. I would also recommend 24-2 or something like that.
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Post by arttu on Feb 18, 2015 15:14:31 GMT
Hmmmm...A friend of mine tell me, that with osciloscope is possible to compare two signals....from coils and from VR sensor. Yes, you can do that but how you know what is the TDC in the VR signal? It isn't so easy to tell where exactly you get the zero crossing related to the trigger wheel. Even in the best case there can be several degrees uncertainty. A strobe light is a safe solution. Yes, it's a bit messy but not too bad
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Post by nitro on Feb 18, 2015 16:50:01 GMT
Low number of teeth on trigger may cause trouble with starting. Since the crank speed varies a lot during cranking the ECU may have difficulties to detect the missing tooth. Car engines are often easier in this sense because they have heavier crank and therefore more stable crank speed. I would also recommend 24-2 or something like that. That´s interesting! Most people say that to much lobes gives bad signal at cranking. Ignijet itself says don´t make 24 trigger with 50mm diameter. But in my case it work fine.
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Post by katana on Feb 18, 2015 17:58:58 GMT
This is always good for discussion - I had a 4-0 crank wheel used with a 1 tooth cam trigger for sync and an old Motec and i've personal experience of Gixers using 36-1 crank wheels with std. mag pick-up and both seemed to work equally well so both ends of the spectrum there. I was surprised with the 36-1 @ 50mm diameter cos the gaps are about as wide as the teeth so the pick-up should have given only moderate signals but seemed to be capable enough!
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Post by slingy1052 on Feb 18, 2015 21:25:42 GMT
Yeah, mine is 36-1 with stock VR sensor and has worked faultlessly on both the 750 and 1100 GSXR motor's. But, interestingly, I helped set up an aircooled Z1000, and with the same set up of having the missing tooth 9 teeth before tdc, it wouldn't work. Plugs out it would spark, plugs in, nothing. As Arttu said, with the plugs out it cranked nice and steady so all happy, but plugs in and the crank speed was very erratic. This was verified by the trigger log in Tunerstudio. With this great tuning tool you can actually see the gap count and time each gap is seen. With this we could see that the time difference of each gap event varied by nearly 100% during one revaluation and we had the missing tooth in the slowest part of the cranking cycle so it just looked like a slightly longer normal event at that part of the crank cycle. So we were able to look at the log, count events to get to the fastest part of the cranking cycle and move the wheel around to match, thus making the missing tooth gap much more prominent. This worked great and now it starts fine and runs well on the 36-1 trigger also.
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Post by andrey on Feb 18, 2015 21:36:06 GMT
This evening I spoke with 'master mappers' (they work with motec,haltech,Vipec,Pektel and other $$$$ 'out of my budget' shit). They said that the problem with throttle response is strange to be related with trigger. I'll try with 12-1...I have already laser cut it from 5mm thick steel. It's not expensive (they charge me 1,5 Euro for one piece).
QUESTION: Diameter of original trigger wheel...I was lazy and don't cheked it in real, so I made it 64mm (I find this dim somewhere in da Net)
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Post by andrey on Feb 18, 2015 21:54:19 GMT
And one more (sorry!!!)
Master-jadi-mappres said that my idea to use 'full group' for injector with ITB is not the brightest idea...problems with too rich idle. So if I decide to put cam sensor...what sensor ...VAG,GSxR 600 or???
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Post by nitro on Feb 18, 2015 23:04:08 GMT
Full group for injector with ITB???
I use full sequentiell, but semi sequentiell works fine, too. Have fit standard gsxr cam sensor, but i think also other cam sensors will work.
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Post by slingy1052 on Feb 18, 2015 23:25:59 GMT
QUESTION: Diameter of original trigger wheel...I was lazy and don't cheked it in real, so I made it 64mm (I find this dim somewhere in da Net) 64mm is way too big. Can't remember exactly but my wheel was 51mm and needed turning down slightly to clear VR sensor. So somewhere between 50 and 50.5mm I would say. I run batch fire with 460cc injectors and get a clean idle ok. Even when it was 750cc. Though mine fire as 2 sets of 2 injectors on alternating rotations. I have tried batch fire on all four together and noticed no real difference eitherway
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Post by arttu on Feb 19, 2015 6:38:31 GMT
This is always good for discussion - I had a 4-0 crank wheel used with a 1 tooth cam trigger for sync and an old Motec and i've personal experience of Gixers using 36-1 crank wheels with std. mag pick-up and both seemed to work equally well so both ends of the spectrum there. I was surprised with the 36-1 @ 50mm diameter cos the gaps are about as wide as the teeth so the pick-up should have given only moderate signals but seemed to be capable enough! The cam trigger, or any secondary trigger, makes starting easier as it provides reliable position reference no matter how unevenly the crank rotates (almost). Back in time I was using 12-1 trigger that worked quite fine but starting was sometimes difficult especially at cold temperature when the cranking speed dropped a bit. Later on I changed to 6-0 main trigger and secondary trigger on the crank which worked perfectly in all conditions. Downside of adding the teeth is that at some point tooth/gap size may get too small for the sensor. As rule of thumb the teeth gap should be wider than tip of the sensor. It's pretty much impossible to say in advance what will work and what not. Even the most stupid setups may work if you are lucky enough But changes are better by using sensible choices.
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Post by arttu on Feb 19, 2015 6:45:51 GMT
And one more (sorry!!!) Master-jadi-mappres said that my idea to use 'full group' for injector with ITB is not the brightest idea...problems with too rich idle. So if I decide to put cam sensor...what sensor ...VAG,GSxR 600 or??? I guess you mean batch injection where the injectors fire all at the same time or in groups? Not fully individually timed sequential injection. Based on my experience this doesn't make huge difference. I run batch injection for years without any problems. When I changed to sequential the idle improved a bit but difference wasn't huge. So I wouldn't worry too much about that. Of course if you can easily add a cam sensor and your ECU supports sequential injection, why not. But you should be completely fine with batch injection too.
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Post by andrey on Feb 19, 2015 7:56:20 GMT
I'm so happy with this quick replies. I'm happy that I find this forum and you people. Thanx.
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Post by andrey on Mar 8, 2015 14:39:46 GMT
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