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Post by Devilman on May 7, 2015 12:03:52 GMT
Are you using it daily or can you pull it apart, if it was me id take it out and see how its fitted in the frame. is the frame cut back or the swinger cut down ?? at the very least sort the dog bones out, in fact id stick a b12 swinger and linkage and dog bones in.. how long is the shock?? is the rear wheel a 5.5 incher??? Not using it daily currently, so can possibly take it apart yes.. Any suggestions on HOW to sort out said dogbones? Why you say B12 swinger? stronger / better than B6 or? Must admit I have never really been a fan of the WN arm's, I think they just look weird personally, due to 1 side being totally different to the other and what-not... As previously mentioned, I DO have a K1 1000 arm, knuckle, dogbones, shock, wheel and everything... Maybe it would just be better in the long run to fit that?
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Post by fatblokeonbandit on May 7, 2015 17:09:57 GMT
Fitting all the k series stuff is not a 5 minute job, fitting a b12 rear is.. if you have a 5.5 inch wheel then the b12 swinger is the easiest bet. as to sorting the dog bones id make a spacer to keep the tops apart the correct amount and find a different linkage that moves the pivot point towards the rear to move them away from the swinger so they don't touch...
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Post by Devilman on May 7, 2015 20:00:10 GMT
Fitting all the k series stuff is not a 5 minute job, fitting a b12 rear is.. if you have a 5.5 inch wheel then the b12 swinger is the easiest bet. as to sorting the dog bones id make a spacer to keep the tops apart the correct amount and find a different linkage that moves the pivot point towards the rear to move them away from the swinger so they don't touch... Cool thanks for the info... I will have to measure up the shocker as I am not sure what it may be from, so unsure of it's length... You reckon its better to drop a B12 knuckle / dogbones / arm and everything in, I am always a bit dubious of using mis-matched knuckles as they can cause unwanted suspension curves (non-linear travel). Appreciate the help & info FBOB *Edit* I just had a thought, I do have the original swinger from my 750J Slingshot, how do they compare to bandit arms? If they are prettymuch the same deal, would that be suitable substitute?
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Post by fatblokeonbandit on May 7, 2015 20:14:04 GMT
too wide at the pivot piint same as the swinger youve got
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Post by Devilman on May 7, 2015 23:28:31 GMT
too wide at the pivot piint same as the swinger youve got Aaah dang, thats a shame, oh well it was just an idea I need to figure out exactly what I do and don't have parts-wise (and fitment-wise) as to which is the best move.. If the frame bosses have been chopped down to fit the wider arm, I asume I will have problems trying to put a bandit arm back into it, without some spacers etc... put into the mix.. Currently the bike doesn't have a proper WN rear caliper so has some (not so great imo) torque arm arrangement with a stock B6 rear caliper (I think it is anyway).
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Post by Devilman on May 23, 2015 20:05:20 GMT
So... Had a chance this weekend to take a look at the swinger setup and see quite what was done and how it's been fitted. To say that I am glad I never rode this yet is an understatement! Once you guys (and gals) finish reading this (and looking at the pics) I am sure you will be as disgusted as I was! So first things first, (well, after constructing a large frame out of wood to hang the back of the bike on lol!) I removed the rear wheel and was looking at what spacers etc.. may have been used to get a larger rim fitted and maintain chain alignment etc... when I checked the markings and look what I found! What kind of tool of a tire-fitter shoe-horns a 190 onto a 4.5 rim? I know I should have spotted it when I first looked at the bike but to be honest, I never gave it a thought, figured it was a later wheel that came with the arm etc.. Finally got a straight look from the back of the bike at the shocker etc.. and it seemed to be not quite in-line, all pushed across to one side of the fork, also similar with the dog-bones, clearly further to the left. At this point it was still not apparent how they had got the arm into the frame (slimming down the arm's pivot, or taking meat out of the frame bosses), so onwards I went.. After some swearing and confusion when things didn't want to come out, like the fact the spring was still "pushing" against the arm with the pre-load fully de-adjusted and the arm hanging down, making removing the linkage and shock a right pain in the arse. Finally got the arm out after some waggling and twisting, which we all know shouldn't be necessary, they should just slide back out, only to find the bearing on the right side to be completely shot, however that was minor compared to the left side... The left side was chewed to hell and seemed to either have something stuck inside it, or the cage had broken up entirely (at least, that was my first thought upon seeing the mess). No end-caps or spacers between the swingarm and the frame, I'm not 100% sure if bandit's have them, but I know my GSXR's do. Pulled out the right-hand bearing, which was pretty-much seized up, but after removal, is clearly totaled. It's pretty obvious from the wear on the arm, the bearing cage and the inner bearing sleeve that the arm has NEVER been straight in this bike, but was clearly used like this for some time for the damage to have occurred. (Point of note... I did not remove / lose any of the needles from the bearing, what you see in the pic is how many were missing lol) So... back to the left-hand bearing... or whatever the hell is stuck in there and try to get the bugger out.. I was rather confused at first as to what the heck was there, it almost seemed like bits of chromium plating had flaked off something and was floating about in there too, though it seemed to have consistency more like baking foil! Got the "object" out of the swingarm without much fuss, still not entirely the wiser as to what the heck the thing is? (or was?) so started picking at it with a screwdriver... Wait a minute?! Is that a ...? No, it couldn't be. Could it? Yep, it really is! A fucking spring with aluminium foil tape wrapped round it... Apparently these qualify as a "bearing" now days. So there ya have it... I mean seriously.. what the FUCK kind of a bodge is that? Not sure what's more infuriating.. the fact someone thought it was fine, or the fact someone else could have ended up riding it (and not being a mechanic) without a clue of the risk, or just the fact that eventually..... this kind of douchebag-ery will cause those of us who actually modify / build a bike properly, to be legally prevented from doing so, as it's just easier to make it illegal than police it. So with the rage and fury out of the way.... I need a few bits of info for help to check the frame hasn't been shagged about... Anyone can be kind enough to give me the width of a B6 frame, between the swingarm mounting "bosses" preferably from a frame with no swinger (not sure if the swinger bolt may close the frame up a bit when tightened?) Any info on how to ID the swingarm to specific model (I am unsure whether its 750 WN / WP or 1100) And if possible leading on from the last one... The correct pivot width (bare arm, no spacers / caps) of the arm I have. (or, if they are all the same / only 2 different ones, the relevant measurement) Thanks loads in advance Stay safe peeps... Especially if your buying / riding a bike that has been modified by someone you don't know
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Post by zooma on May 24, 2015 16:57:04 GMT
FFS, that conversion takes bodging to a whole new level!!!. I know saying this won't help, but buying a bike with a few "hidden surprises" can happen to the best of us Glad you decided to tear the back-end apart before hitting the road, might not be having this conversation otherwise!. TBH, apart from my current ride, that was like new when I got it, every bike I've ever bought cost well under a grand and always got stripped and rebuilt either straight after buying, or not long after. There's just no way of knowing who's done what unless you pull 'em apart. The worse thing is that the bloke who messed with yer Bandit, probably thinks he's mechanic of the year!.
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Post by Devilman on May 24, 2015 17:27:28 GMT
FFS, that conversion takes bodging to a whole new level!!!. I know saying this won't help, but buying a bike with a few "hidden surprises" can happen to the best of us Glad you decided to tear the back-end apart before hitting the road, might not be having this conversation otherwise!. TBH, apart from my current ride, that was like new when I got it, every bike I've ever bought cost well under a grand and always got stripped and rebuilt either straight after buying, or not long after. There's just no way of knowing who's done what unless you pull 'em apart. The worse thing is that the bloke who messed with yer Bandit, probably thinks he's mechanic of the year!. Yeh tell me about it lol! That level of bodging is horrific and if the guy I bought it from was the one who did the work, I pity him, as he was riding the bike around like that!! And yeh, I was saying to Fbob in PM that I never trust another persons "modifications" and always like to check the work myself before going onto the road... thing's like this just convince me even more than its a "must", not just being pessimistic and expecting things to be bad.
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Post by Devilman on May 24, 2015 18:08:05 GMT
Just goes to show, ya can't even trust the MOT testers these days it seems... How any bike with a seized rear shock can get through a MOT, I reckon the guy must have done it over the phone lol Still, at least the seized shock didn't throw ya off the bike, lucky really
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Post by captain chaos on May 24, 2015 18:37:53 GMT
Just goes to show, ya can't even trust the MOT testers these days it seems... How any bike with a seized rear shock can get through a MOT, I reckon the guy must have done it over the phone lol don't know about the UK, but in the Netherlands and in Lithuania (both countries where I've done MOT tests) the regulations say nothing about how a shock should work. Only that oil should not leak from it and there should be no movement in joints. But yes it's difficult to trust someone nowadays. Another mechanic brought me a GS500, it was not running anymore after he had cleaned the carbs. Everything carb-related is now 100% OK he said, so it must be an ignition issue. Of course the first thing I check is the carbs. Intake vacuum pipe connected to the tank breather pipe. Of course it doesn't run. smileychair
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Post by Devilman on May 24, 2015 19:10:59 GMT
don't know about the UK, but in the Netherlands and in Lithuania (both countries where I've done MOT tests) the regulations say nothing about how a shock should work. Only that oil should not leak from it and there should be no movement in joints. But yes it's difficult to trust someone nowadays. Another mechanic brought me a GS500, it was not running anymore after he had cleaned the carbs. Everything carb-related is now 100% OK he said, so it must be an ignition issue. Of course the first thing I check is the carbs. Intake vacuum pipe connected to the tank breather pipe. Of course it doesn't run. smileychair Hmm, Not sure to be honest, I know they changed the reg's on cars a few years back, where tester's no longer had to "bounce" a car to check the damping was working etc.. so maybe the same deal happened for bikes too. Either way, you'd think an MOT tester would notice the rear didn't even move when he sat on the bike lol. I know what ya mean about people saying 1 thing and the truth being another lol.. Wen't to look at a Mk2 600 a few days back, looked quite pretty in the pics, was said to just have a "carb / coil problem" and a flat battery.. Being always wary of anyone / anything that says "flat battery" I decided to take one with me to connect up so I could spin over the motor and at least make sure she sounded ok mechanically. When I arrived, the bike was a lot "uglier" than the pics made her appear, it's so surprising how many lies a picture can tell, its almost as if the higher mega-pixel the camera's have gotten, the more they LIE, rather than showing the detail lol. Anyway, connected my battery up, turned the fuel on (noting that someone had left it on "prime"), pulled a bit of choke into it, flicked the starter and "whir, whir, whir, clunk" it stopped dead after 3 squeezes. Slightly confused I decided to look around the bike a bit, saw ugly things like carb heaters hanging out of the carbs etc.., general nastyness. Stuck the bike into 5th gear, shoved it forward so it turned the motor over a couple times, then tried it again.. She fired up, clearly on 3, but smoking like fuck (white and blue, though mostly white). idled for maybe 10 sec, then the revs crept up a bit.... then it did it again... and again... and again... as the bike approached 3.5k rpm without even touching it, I shut her down. Unscrewed the oil filler, gave it a sniff... holy shit, smelt more of petrol than the fuel tank ! sightglass was totally covered, even on sidestand.. it'd emptied most of its tank into the sump, tried to hydraulic when I first hit the starter (hence the whir, whir, whir, clunk) and was now attempting to "diesel" itself, running on the mixture of petrol & oil sitting in the sump. Needless to say, I walked away from that bike....
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Post by zooma on May 24, 2015 19:14:09 GMT
Just goes to show, ya can't even trust the MOT testers these days it seems... How any bike with a seized rear shock can get through a MOT, I reckon the guy must have done it over the phone lol Still, at least the seized shock didn't throw ya off the bike, lucky really Think a few of us would agree that there's MOT tests, and then there's MOT tests... if ya catch my drift?.
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Post by zooma on May 24, 2015 19:18:50 GMT
Just goes to show, ya can't even trust the MOT testers these days it seems... How any bike with a seized rear shock can get through a MOT, I reckon the guy must have done it over the phone lol don't know about the UK, but in the Netherlands and in Lithuania (both countries where I've done MOT tests) the regulations say nothing about how a shock should work. Only that oil should not leak from it and there should be no movement in joints. But yes it's difficult to trust someone nowadays. Another mechanic brought me a GS500, it was not running anymore after he had cleaned the carbs. Everything carb-related is now 100% OK he said, so it must be an ignition issue. Of course the first thing I check is the carbs. Intake vacuum pipe connected to the tank breather pipe. Of course it doesn't run. smileychair Hmm, would have to look that up, think the MOT testers manual is online somewhere.. you could be right tho', I mean it's possible for a bike to get through the test with struts in place of shocks so a seized or welded-up shock might not be an issue?
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Post by Devilman on May 24, 2015 19:21:02 GMT
Well, Thanks to Fbob for calling up a favour from someone on a Bandit forum who measured up his frame and gave me a width of 220mm between the bosses.. Off to measure my frame now, hopefully the reason they did such a horrific "bodge" on the swingarm, is because thats where the took all the "meat" out of and haven't touched the frame itself. Cheers all
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Post by Devilman on May 24, 2015 20:08:16 GMT
So... back from measuring and picture taking... Didn't have a tape measure handy and the only ruler I had was a 1m steel engineers rule which was rather unwieldy lol... So cut a bit of UPVC to 220mm, crossed my fingers and slid it between the frame bosses... It slid in, just touching both sides, although I would say looking at it, the left-hand boss might be slightly warn at the bottom edge, maybe by about 0.8mm, I snapped a couple of pics of the bosses.. Right side looks prettymuch unmollested, maybe a bit scuffed but nothing to worry about. Left side is the one that looks to have had a bit of a beating from the swinger, mostly likely due to the "spring & foil bearing" letting the arm move around and such.. I can file off the burr no problem, but it does seem as if the boss is maybe 0.8mm out of true at some level. It might just be the very bottom edge of the boss that has been worn back , in which case the "face" is still square and true and shouldn't be any problem at all. I may try and put the pivotbolt back in and get a set-square and see whether its just the very bottom edge, or if the whole boss has become chamfered back at an angle slightly, as that would indeed be a problem. Any thoughts Oldskoolers?
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