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Post by Devilman on May 23, 2015 16:26:18 GMT
Quazi, I couldnt agree more in most of your saying, and as I always say I also dont know everything . Daily riding suspencion will always be a compromise the one day is perfect the other you ride on eggs. For sure is personal thing/ feeling how do men want their set up, and for sure its pitty to see newer bikes have more trouble in corners than you on your oldtimer flexy frame almost no brakes but its still awsome. LOL yeh so true... Just wanted to be sure that both increasing the oil level and the viscosity at the same time wouldn't be too much, I was expecting it to be an "either / or" kinda option rather than both together lol So if the viscosity of the oil is what typically affects the rate / stiffness of the damping, what does increasing the level do? just more of the same, or is it to target different "areas" of the damping (if you see what I mean). Always nice to know how it works and the reasons for certain changes, as to be better informed next time to decide for ones self Cheers
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Post by quazi on May 23, 2015 16:35:32 GMT
Quazi, I couldnt agree more in most of your saying, and as I always say I also dont know everything . Daily riding suspencion will always be a compromise the one day is perfect the other you ride on eggs. For sure is personal thing/ feeling how do men want their set up, and for sure its pitty to see newer bikes have more trouble in corners than you on your oldtimer flexy frame almost no brakes but its still awsome. No problems bud, I agree with you. Suspension is the most difficult thing to master as it requires time, effort and a degree of knowledge, most of us have very little of both time and money to waste if things fail. I meant no offence by what I posted against anybody's else's advice. I have learnt what I know the hard way like many others I suspect and I'm old enough to have tried and failed in some things, gained in others learning by our/my own mistakes. I don't offer advice very often, because too many things are so personal and this interweb thing is so black and white, no emotion to it, so things can be taken out of context very easily.
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Post by quazi on May 23, 2015 16:43:51 GMT
Quazi, I couldnt agree more in most of your saying, and as I always say I also dont know everything . Daily riding suspencion will always be a compromise the one day is perfect the other you ride on eggs. For sure is personal thing/ feeling how do men want their set up, and for sure its pitty to see newer bikes have more trouble in corners than you on your oldtimer flexy frame almost no brakes but its still awsome. LOL yeh so true... Just wanted to be sure that both increasing the oil level and the viscosity at the same time wouldn't be too much, I was expecting it to be an "either / or" kinda option rather than both together lol So if the viscosity of the oil is what typically affects the rate / stiffness of the damping, what does increasing the level do? just more of the same, or is it to target different "areas" of the damping (if you see what I mean). Always nice to know how it works and the reasons for certain changes, as to be better informed next time to decide for ones self Cheers I would do one first, then the other. Firstly, you should sort the springs out, because no amount of oil will disguise a soft spring. Go onto K-Tech website and get yourself a pair of springs for about £80, can't remember the code or weight, but opt for one towards the heavier side. Then stick in some 15 weight at the correct level, the try it out. If it's too soft down to the bottom of the travel, but returns fairly well, try some heavier oil not change the level. You are talking road bike here, so I wouldn't mess too much with the levels to start with, as that will only fine tune what you already have. If what you already have is shit, then you still have shit with a level change. This is a difficult subject to discuss in any great detail over the internet, like I said, change one thing at a time and go from there. The other problem is: you spend ages working on the front end, but then the rest of the bike fucks it up, tyres, pressures, rear shock, ride height, sag, chain tension, swing arm anlge, etc....
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Post by Devilman on May 23, 2015 16:46:44 GMT
Awesome thanks Quazi.. as you can probably tell I wrote the last reply before realising that you had posted just before kokolis LOL... I must have looked stupid asking for info on how it worked, right after you had just given info on how it worked.... smileywtf Cheers all, much appreciate the help & info
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Post by Devilman on May 23, 2015 16:56:16 GMT
I would do one first, then the other. Firstly, you should sort the springs out, because no amount of oil will disguise a soft spring. Go onto K-Tech website and get yourself a pair of springs for about £80, can't remember the code or weight, but opt for one towards the heavier side. Then stick in some 15 weight at the correct level, the try it out. If it's too soft down to the bottom of the travel, but returns fairly well, try some heavier oil not change the level. You are talking road bike here, so I wouldn't mess too much with the levels to start with, as that will only fine tune what you already have. If what you already have is shit, then you still have shit with a level change. This is a difficult subject to discuss in any great detail over the internet, like I said, change one thing at a time and go from there. The other problem is: you spend ages working on the front end, but then the rest of the bike fucks it up, tyres, pressures, rear shock, ride height, sag, chain tension, swing arm anlge, etc.... LOL indeed, it does make suspension turn into a "dark art" which has no real true answers, everything is affected and inter-connected with other settings and adjustments. I will speak with my mate and see what he says about his general feeling of the frontend, if he finds it dives too much or whatever and wants to try heavier oil. (Who knows, he may be happy as it is).. With regard to the type of fork oil... any recomendations / reasons for using say ... mineral instead of synth or vice-verca? (again, just lookin to understand why it may be preferable to use one type over another and what gains / losses there are from doing so) Cheers
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Post by Devilman on May 25, 2015 18:31:27 GMT
Well, he dropped his bike over today and after speaking with him, he said he was perfectly happy with the front-end how it is, So I guess it'll be 507ml of SAE10 going back in it after doing the fork seals Any issue's or quirks with changing the seals on these or getting all the oil out (so I know the right quantity is going back in) or are they prettymuch the same as Slingshot RWU forks when it comes to changing seals etc? How do you guys measure out your fork oil, syringe, small jug or is there a way to measure the "level" of the oil in the shock (I remember on old bikes they specc'ed a measurement from the top-edge of the fork tube to the oil level) Thanks
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Post by zooma on May 25, 2015 18:58:44 GMT
How do you guys measure out your fork oil, syringe, small jug or is there a way to measure the "level" of the oil in the shock (I remember on old bikes they specc'ed a measurement from the top-edge of the fork tube to the oil level) Thanks Small jug / funnel combination and one of these for the level :- oil level toolCheap versions can be found on ebay or better still make yer own (couple of vids on ytube show how)
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Post by zooma on May 25, 2015 19:01:22 GMT
Found the DIY level tool link for ya :- oil level tool DIYMost of the bits to make that are available on ebay
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Post by kokolis on May 25, 2015 19:33:15 GMT
Baby bottle tool, or oil level tool. You can put some vazeline on the inside of the seal before install.
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Post by Devilman on May 26, 2015 0:06:03 GMT
Found the DIY level tool link for ya :- oil level tool DIYMost of the bits to make that are available on ebay Baby bottle tool, or oil level tool. You can put some vazeline on the inside of the seal before install. Cool thx... Just 1 question... How do you know the ratio of oil height to quantity, surely it varies depending on fork diameter and internals? 507 cc/ml of fluid would be a different height from the fork top on different forks? Seems a nice easy way to get fork oil levels exact, as long as you know the distance from the fork top that a given quantity of oil will be, so anyone know what it is on a Mk2 bandit 1200 (faired if that makes any difference)? Cheers
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Post by kokolis on May 26, 2015 5:32:52 GMT
You have to have the number or compare both levels, a couple ml more or less is not a problem but quantity difference among two fork legs is.
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Post by quazi on May 26, 2015 9:55:41 GMT
Once you've pumped the leg up and down a few times off the bike, I tend to leave them to drain overnight upside down, not entirely necessary, it's just what I do. Depends on the mileage of the bike, but the shims can gather some shite between themselves over time, which upsets the action and flow rate through the piston. Most folk wouldn't bother to do anything about that, and again not entirely necessary, the action of the forks will produce a small discolouration of the oil, that is a sludge, teflon particles from the bushes + copper particles. In an ideal world, a full fork strip and clean out would give another 30k worth of use. It's not for eveybody to tackle though.
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Post by Devilman on May 26, 2015 14:06:54 GMT
You have to have the number or compare both levels, a couple ml more or less is not a problem but quantity difference among two fork legs is. Well, I have the quantity, not the level But yes, I can pour in say, 510ml and then keep fiddling with the pipe length until it only just draws a bit of fluid then stops and can use that setting to make sure both legs have the same quantity. Did they redesign the dust seals on the MK2 bandits? The bike doesn't have the old type of "cover" that went right over the seal to the leg, it just has a kinda plastic "guard" that stands up infront of the leg. Quazi: Dunno if I will do a full-strip on the forks, this may sound a daft question, is it possible to remove the lowers without putting the tubes out of the yokes? Main reason I ask is that the chroming on the upper's (between the yokes) is really badly pitted / corroded etc.. and I just don't fancy scratching the hell outta the rest of them trying to get them out of the yokes. It would be a lot easier if its possible to remove the lower off the fork tube, even if I have to undo a few more bits, if that's possible?
Cheers
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Post by kokolis on May 26, 2015 17:21:59 GMT
Yes quantity and pipe will as you said work.
Modern dust seals with quard, oil seal is under that. Scotch bride does wonders with a bit oil or wd40, you cant replace fork seals without taking the forks out of the trees......from under but thats onorthodox and bizar, but doable in some cases
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Post by zooma on May 26, 2015 19:38:22 GMT
Won't the clamps open up enough so you can slide them out nice n easy?. If not then run with what kokolis just said, a scotch-brite pad and some WD; just enough to take the lip of any pits. Waaaaay better to have the forks out IMHO
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