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Post by captain chaos on May 31, 2015 16:37:36 GMT
Hi guys,
suppose I have an 1100 Slingy or B12 with blow through turbo and the original carbs. Now if I want to EFI it, what would be good things to buy? For example which manufacturer ECU and which throtle bodies and sensors and stuff?
Thanks - CC
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Post by andrey on Jun 1, 2015 15:05:12 GMT
Any good stand alone ECU, but never Mega, Igni-migni tech,Vems and other Mega clones and derivate...my personal opinion and experience). I use the smallest Link ECU ATOM, it cost around 1000 euro here in Bulgaria. I don't have explanation why, but most of the best ECUs products comes from New Z-land and Australia, like Motec, Haltech, Vipec, Link...
GSXR 600 k1-3 throttle bodies...This particular TB can be separated to single body and can be adjusted to needed cylinder spacing. My coils are from some COPS from some gixxer...30euro Ignition driver...scrap yard...VAG 4 cahnnel...30euro IAT ... from scrap yard form VAG................5 euro ECT... from scrap yard form VAG................1 euro BOSCH 910 fuel pump from scrap yard form VAG..30 euro custom fuel rail ..china alu profile 17 euro 4 bar VAG FPR from scrap yard ..10 euro
custom 12-1 wheel pressed on original ignition wheel
This is enough to run da bike
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Post by captain chaos on Jun 1, 2015 18:21:06 GMT
Thanks Andrey.
What's wrong with the ECUs you mentionned?
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Post by andrey on Jun 1, 2015 18:57:26 GMT
It's a 'millennium question'..Mega or other. During the years I have seen too many engines blown by Mega ('car alarm' called here ). Not very clear who is more 'guilt' - mapper or Mega or wiring guy. If you compare 'extras/specs' of Mega and other...you find out, that on paper Mega have even more 'ability' than other, but in my opinion, main advantage of 'good brand' ECU's is stability. Mega becomes 'faxes for deep space' too often . Even the stupid KMS ECU (widely used here for 2.2T) its way stable and accurate then Mega.
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Post by andrey on Jun 1, 2015 19:02:05 GMT
GSXR 01-03 600 TB have 38mm bore. You can use 750 TB form the same years. They are bigger and still can be separate like the 600.
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Post by slingy1052 on Jun 2, 2015 10:11:47 GMT
My microsquirt has been reliable as from the get go. No blown engines here. Other issues from trying to be a smart arse and building a tablet into the dash. But these weren't actually related to the ecu. The Big issue with megasquirt to me is the price. Because it's always been so much cheaper than the alternatives, it's encouraged people with little or no idea to try and efi projects. Then when it all fails they blame the ecu. Don't get me wrong, i am fully aware of its issues, but you pay your money and takes your choice. The Mega/microsquirt s are a good option in my opinion, BUT....they do require more user input and research to make a reliable system. This is the trade off for the cheap price. The more plug and play you want it, the more you have to pay.
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Post by slingy1052 on Jun 2, 2015 11:08:58 GMT
Like Andrey said, i am also a big fan of using car OEM efi stuff.Its Cheap as chips, most self serve car wreckers dont even really care about sensors and wires etc as they are of little scrap value, so you can go grab a bag of assorted stuff for a Tenner.
My system is a follows:
GPZ1100 TB's and TPS (straight fit onto oil cooled suzuki's and dead easy to work with as takes standard Denso car injectors).($40)
Mazda RX7 550cc High impedance Denso injectors ($40) ( Could never get the accell enrichment that good so just fitted some Ford 300cc High impedance Denso's (again only $40)to see if a better resolution can be achieved.
Home made fuel rail for 12mm injector fitment and frame clearance from alloy extrusion
SARD adjustable fuel pressure regulator (Approx $100) (would recomend just using a Bosch car regulator instead)
Pierburg Fuel pump (approx $100) It was the lowest current draw for the highest rated pressure i could find.
GM Coolant sensor ($10)
GPZ Turbo IAT sensor ( $80 in a complete GPZ Turbo injection setup)
GM Copy 3 Bar Map Sensor (aprox $100) SAAB's and other EU Turbo cars use these so could be scored very cheap
Triggerwheels.com 51mm universal 36-1 trigger wheel fitted to turned down stock trigger ($20)
Ford EDIS coil (just because i had it and i had good 8mm silicone leads to fit)
Innovate Wideband O2 Sensor (Approx $300).
The 2 things that really need spending money on are ECU and Wideband sensor. Everything else can be second hand, car parts, bike parts, what ever suits for the budget.
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Post by Devilman on Jun 2, 2015 12:00:45 GMT
My microsquirt has been reliable as from the get go. No blown engines here. Other issues from trying to be a smart arse and building a tablet into the dash. But these weren't actually related to the ecu. The Big issue with megasquirt to me is the price. Because it's always been so much cheaper than the alternatives, it's encouraged people with little or no idea to try and efi projects. Then when it all fails they blame the ecu. Don't get me wrong, i am fully aware of its issues, but you pay your money and takes your choice. The Mega/microsquirt s are a good option in my opinion, BUT....they do require more user input and research to make a reliable system. This is the trade off for the cheap price. The more plug and play you want it, the more you have to pay. THIS, above all else... To ANYONE who tries to blame megasquirt or say they are not up to the task... You have no fucking clue what your talking about to stfu. The problem with all "easy to use" DIY stuff like Mega, is that morons who think they are genius's try to DIY it, fuck it up, then cry that the hardware was no good cus they are far too self-absorbed and arrogant to believe its their own stupidity at fault. Stop fucking ragging on megasquirt / microsquirt people... If you think its bad, its cus youre fucking stupid and can't set it up. It has far more "tunability" and can be used for more things than most "off the shelf" piece of shit ECU's that most people swear by... and when you really probe them as to why they swear by them? Oh. cus it works and it was easy to use... So in other words... people swear by off-the-shelf ECU's not cus they are a better ecu, but because the buyer is a fucking tard who has no clue how to use mega. /rant off. As to other gear, dead on with what people have said thus far, gsxr throttlebodies work nicely, although need some minor re-spacing and slight tweaking of the throttle linkage to suit.
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Post by captain chaos on Jun 2, 2015 14:02:42 GMT
Thanks guys, very good info so far.
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Post by danm54 on Jun 2, 2015 14:55:25 GMT
Ive used Microsquirt on my turbo build, granted its not set up or really been used but its a doddle to wire up.
I got all my kit from triggerwheels and it came with a full wire by wire guide on what does what and how to wire it up. Only issue I had was the wrong firmware loaded onto the microsquirt, I never checked it and set up tuner studio to read the wrong firmware.
Fully adjustable and more options than I'm ever going to use, NOS, launch control, hard and soft limiters etc etc.
Id be out my depth trying to set everything correctly before I damaged an engine so I'm happy to pay someone to do that for me. Thats the bit that makes or breaks your build.
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Post by andrey on Jun 3, 2015 7:08:21 GMT
I knew it would happen . I'm sure that most of the fails are from bad wiring, assembling of the kit or mappers. My personal experience is with 5.6 V8 M117 Mercedes engine (originally is mechanical injection), US Mega kit, EDIS 8, 240cc GM injector etc. It worked wonderful, but time to time wont't start...whatever I do...next morning start without problem. And after 10 day..same.
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Post by slingy1052 on Jun 3, 2015 7:47:30 GMT
This happens every time an efi topic is brought up. Let's keep on topic rather creating a which ecu is best thread. As stated before, like any project, DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Research is the key. Except the fact that money has to be spent on an aftermarket ecu. Except the fact that money has to be spent on an wideband 02 sensor. Use your research to decide what type of efi system you want, ( fuel only, non sequential or full sequential) then this will dictate what parts you need. Then decide whether used parts are acceptable or new parts are going to be used. Again, I will reiterate what Andrey has touched on. OEM car efi parts are made to a very high standard and have had virtually decade's of R & D put into them. No reason not to pillage them for very cheap components. I will, for example be looking to use Toyota Corolla COP's on my bike. Cheap and have in built high current driver's. This could even be usefull for retrofitting cops to a carby bike and letting the cdi unit just switch the logic level input of the drivers and not having to wire the cops in series to get the right impedance at the expense of reduced output.
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Post by captain chaos on Jun 3, 2015 7:56:56 GMT
I hear ya about doing my homework, that's what I am trying now.
Want to know approximately how much what costs before deciding and buying anything. And I thought OSS would be the best place to ask since many people have tried all kinds of things.
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Post by andrey on Jun 3, 2015 10:49:17 GMT
That's why slingy1052 and danm54 are masters jedai. They have the force to cool down others.
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Post by Devilman on Jun 3, 2015 11:14:34 GMT
The problem with a lot of OEM car injection stuff, is that while the basic equipment (injectors etc..) are fine, a LOT of the systems are designed to work with LARGE trigger wheels driven from the crankshaft, with BIG, OBVIOUS cut-out's and the engine is being spun over by a BIGASS starter motor which helps maintain cranking RPM in a nice easy "zone".
Then you go and bolt the same stuff onto a bike which needs a tiny little trigger wheel, can have very erratic / variable RPMs when cranking etc... and they dont work properly for shit...
Just because something was built by a car manufacturer doesn't mean its gonna be amazing on a bike... it was DESIGNED to go on a car... in fact, it was DESIGNED to meet a very specific set of requirements, which most bikes DO NOT MEET.... So to anyone who asserts the idea that OEM car stuff is the better way to add EFI to a bike.... Your in just as much chance of it not working as you are with a home-build system such as Mega.... the only difference is with mega, you have more support when it wont work.
Don't get me wrong, Im not trying to turn this into a "use mega or your shit" kinda thread / post, just wanting to point out the problems that can come with adding EFI to old bikes like ours, regardless of the ECU brand / source.
Most of the problems are from the "ancillary" parts of the system , like trigger wheel setup, cam sensor (if you use one) and so forth and getting it all to work reliably on such a small package as a bike.
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