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Post by mattturbocar on Jun 25, 2013 20:53:25 GMT
Matt, I'm sorry but anything that effects a na engine will effect a boosted engine even more, just because you are flowing much more air or air/ fuel past the obstruction or whatever it is. Shorter fatter runners WILL give more top end at the expense of bottom end, and long thin runners the opposite. A lot of people think that to get around bad design you just up the boost, but that is bad practice. Makes things a lot more likely of going bang. no need to be sorry, I am interested in what you can tell me. My thinking is that on a NA engine you might get 5-10% better flow with a perfectly tuned runner. Similarly you might get a similar improvement with a turbo engine with a perfect runner so there is probably logic in your plan. The only issue is that your servos will need to be really strong to act against (15psi * the area of the 4 runners), and tuning it is going to be tricky, and if they fail (and its working) your AFR will go wrong. The thinking for my 'bad design' is that once boosting I can use boost control to ensure the MAP at the inlet port is whatever I want. So I can use that to get past my imperfect tract lengths at high RPM. I have also used gsxr600 rather than gsxr1000 throttle bodies for similar reasons (and easier idle control). The amount of air pressure that goes into the engine and the temperature of that air are the only things that can encourage detonation. Any drop in pressure along the runner will yield a drop in temperature (PV=nRT) so I think that turning up the boost in this situation might not be so bad, as long as it doesn't put it into an inefficient place for the turbo flow map. Anyway, thats my thinking. I don't have the tools to measure whether what I think is true in practice.
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Post by trenchy on Jun 25, 2013 21:00:45 GMT
I wasn't suggesting your design was bad or imperfect at all, I was generalising in that paragraph. My turbo will not have variable runners, in my eyes it is going a little too far into things for my level of commitment and available time. Personally I'd rather get a good flowing system and tune that to minimise any turbo lag. But then again, since I left uni I don't have the tools to measure these things either, and its just my opinion.
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Teresa O.
Velociraptor
Posts: 37
Bikes: Trickframed 1127, Turbo 14 and many more
Reg: May 31, 2013 18:51:42 GMT
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Post by Teresa O. on Jun 26, 2013 7:35:29 GMT
variable runner length and or variable injector distance to valve won't see any benefit in terms of a broader rev-range..
we are not talking about overall proper design suited to the application... which certainly is important
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zepp
Oviraptor
Posts: 7
Reg: Apr 20, 2013 7:00:58 GMT
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Post by zepp on Jul 1, 2013 10:04:32 GMT
I am watching and listening
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Post by mattturbocar on Jul 2, 2013 17:44:33 GMT
yeah matt, i picked those injectors cos i had some lying around. anyone wanna spec me some that are 'good' Bosch ones are well regarded. I'd go high impedance to keep things simple. The more recent the better. I had some cbr1000rr (honda) ones from 2007 and they really spray versus the k1-3 gsxr1000 ones. Low flow rate on the cbr ones (as the bike has 8 of them). Maybe something like saab turbo if you want to go scrap-yard budget, or get recon ones from e-bay that have been cleaned and checked.
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Post by CHR15 on Jul 10, 2013 17:58:40 GMT
fuel cell started. will mock it up on the bike tomorrow probably.
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Teresa O.
Velociraptor
Posts: 37
Bikes: Trickframed 1127, Turbo 14 and many more
Reg: May 31, 2013 18:51:42 GMT
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Post by Teresa O. on Jul 11, 2013 5:42:20 GMT
wouldn't a narrower, taller cell be better to sustain fuel delivery under hard acceleration? Especially when talking about a small volume.. and, maybe think about a ful-cooler on the return line because of named small volume...
But, ise nice...
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Post by trenchy on Jul 31, 2013 9:05:51 GMT
Teresa, when i say broader rev range, I mean broader power delivery.
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Post by CHR15 on Jul 31, 2013 17:23:16 GMT
programmed the first setup btw.
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Post by busaash on Jul 31, 2013 17:54:46 GMT
looking good chris , nice to see you working on the turbo bandit again .
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birdoprey
Velociraptor
Posts: 36
Reg: Jun 29, 2013 14:48:00 GMT
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Post by birdoprey on Jul 31, 2013 18:12:23 GMT
yeah matt, i picked those injectors cos i had some lying around. anyone wanna spec me some that are 'good' Bosch ones are well regarded. I'd go high impedance to keep things simple. The more recent the better. I had some cbr1000rr (H*nd*) ones from 2007 and they really spray versus the k1-3 gsxr1000 ones. Low flow rate on the cbr ones (as the bike has 8 of them). Maybe something like saab turbo if you want to go scrap-yard budget, or get recon ones from e-bay that have been cleaned and checked. 02-up RC51 injectors are 12 hole and flow a little more than do the K1-3 GSXR injectors(BTW the 99-07 Busa uses the same injectorsas the GSXR). Open the hole up(where the injector tip sticks into the intake port) a little and they drop right in the GSXR throttle bodies. They give much better fuel atomization than the K1-3 GSXR units.
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Post by mattturbocar on Aug 1, 2013 13:18:04 GMT
Bosch ones are well regarded. I'd go high impedance to keep things simple. The more recent the better. I had some cbr1000rr (H*nd*) ones from 2007 and they really spray versus the k1-3 gsxr1000 ones. Low flow rate on the cbr ones (as the bike has 8 of them). Maybe something like saab turbo if you want to go scrap-yard budget, or get recon ones from e-bay that have been cleaned and checked. 02-up RC51 injectors are 12 hole and flow a little more than do the K1-3 GSXR injectors(BTW the 99-07 Busa uses the same injectorsas the GSXR). Open the hole up(where the injector tip sticks into the intake port) a little and they drop right in the GSXR throttle bodies. They give much better fuel atomization than the K1-3 GSXR units. If that gives enough fuel then that is good, my concern is that you might run out of capacity unless you increase the fuel pressure. Has anyone tried sv1000 injectors? No personal experience but they look like they might be plug and play (being suzuki and all), and certainly have decent capacity.
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birdoprey
Velociraptor
Posts: 36
Reg: Jun 29, 2013 14:48:00 GMT
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Post by birdoprey on Aug 4, 2013 18:48:19 GMT
The RC51 injectors(there are 4 injectors, two per cyl) will support just over 200rwhp N/A. Will support much more with a rising rate regulator that is boost referenced. Same with the K1-3 GSXR injectors(well, slightly less but very close). Also, the RC51 injectors only require opening up the hole where the tip of the injectors goes through the throttle body. Can easily be done with a hand drill and bit. The OD of the injector body where it sits in the throttle body is the same as the GSXR injectors. Pretty much a plug and play. Was not sure if my earlier post was very clear.
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Post by katana on Aug 5, 2013 18:19:52 GMT
Rising rate regulators are a PITA to map with as the flow rises exponentially not in a strict linear fashion. Also you not only need a pump that flows the numbers with increased pressure due to the boost but also increased due to the rising rate! Just easier to use or adapt a better flowing injector IMHO!
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birdoprey
Velociraptor
Posts: 36
Reg: Jun 29, 2013 14:48:00 GMT
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Post by birdoprey on Aug 5, 2013 18:25:39 GMT
Rising rate regulators are a PITA to map with as the flow rises exponentially not in a strict linear fashion. Also you not only need a pump that flows the numbers with increased pressure due to the boost but also increased due to the rising rate! Just easier to use or adapt a better flowing injector IMHO! I agree 100%. Getting a high imp injector that flows enough on its own is not the easiest thing to map down low either. Low imp injectors are best for that application.
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