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Post by katana on Jul 24, 2014 18:44:18 GMT
Don't be so dismissive of the oilers - my draw through was making an easy 220hp with a little T2 turbo and pump piss fuel and my big boy toy made 370hp with the injectors max'd out - that's got another 75 - 100hp in it. The Busa's are no doubt a strong design but what makes the difference is water cooling - it minimises hot spots that lead to engine destroying detonation. Funny enough I bought a lot of stuff for my first turbo build from Ray Debben - even let me have a box of SS pre bends to fabricate the exhaust manifold - old skool good guy!
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Post by oilyspanner on Jul 25, 2014 12:22:48 GMT
Don't be so dismissive of the oilers - my draw through was making an easy 220hp with a little T2 turbo and pump piss fuel and my big boy toy made 370hp with the injectors max'd out - that's got another 75 - 100hp in it. The Busa's are no doubt a strong design but what makes the difference is water cooling - it minimises hot spots that lead to engine destroying detonation. Funny enough I bought a lot of stuff for my first turbo build from Ray Debben - even let me have a box of SS pre bends to fabricate the exhaust manifold - old skool good guy! Not really 'dissing' the Oilers, they are a hell for strong motor and do have a character all of their own (I love mine) - as you say, the real problem is getting rid of the heat a tuned motor produces. The 150/160 hp that you can fairly easily get out of an oiler (same as 1st gen Busa), combined with big torque is brilliant on the road, you don't need more and it'll grunt out of corners, pass a row of cars very quickly and surprise most things you'll meet. Going more than that requires extra oil coolers when used for more extended use. What I've found recently in the really hot weather is that my carb settings are a bit rich now, but when the air is 10 degrees C cooler it's spot on !
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Post by oilyspanner on Jul 25, 2014 13:56:46 GMT
Of course the dear old 1100s are lighter than the Busa - As I said to Jonny1Bump, I've lost nearly 40lb off my bike so far, reworked the front forks and have a Nitron rear shock (and lighter straight spoke wheels)and it handles really nicely - more nimble than the Busa on my avatar, which had 1000 k4 wheels, ohlins bits in the forks and a WP rear shock. I think I get more feel on my GSXR. The press knocked the 2nd gen 1100 for it's handling, but it's not so far off, just needs a little help - actually in Performance bikes group test in '92 they discovered that the 1100N could be hustled round a track pretty well. I thought my bike would handle like a shopping trolley when I went to pick it up, it was actually not bad at all (actually the worse bit was the standing up on the brakes !-which just isn't there now). As J1B has said the std 91/92 1100 headlamp is very heavy and in a place you don't want weight - if anyone has any ideas what headlamp fits with a few alterations please let me know. I've thought about the 94/95 GSXR750 unit, it has light weight reflectors so should be a few pounds lighter - I'd need to move the mountings and perhaps fit a std shaped headlight protector to fill the cut-out in the fairing - hmm ideas !
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Post by captain chaos on Jul 25, 2014 15:15:55 GMT
the 1100 standing up on the brakes was mostly because they came from the factory with a 130/60-17 front tyre. With a 120/70-17 and a 170/60-17 rear they handle much better.
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Post by oilyspanner on Jul 25, 2014 18:09:01 GMT
the 1100 standing up on the brakes was mostly because they came from the factory with a 130/60-17 front tyre. With a 120/70-17 and a 170/60-17 rear they handle much better. The 1100L had the 130/60 tyre - they went with 120/70 for 91/92 along with less trail and more rake. I think modern tyres help too, even sports touring tyres now are much better than pure sports tyres then. Decent suspension parts and good set-up reap dividends on any bike, but really seems to help the 2nd gens.
The sit-up was bad on my bike because a previous owner fitted longer springs (20mm), didn't pull the forks through the yokes or wind off preload to get the front geometry/sag settings even vaguely right ! - the rear shock's damping had abandoned ship too, that didn't help either. Have wound off the preload on the front now, pulled forks through by 12mm - plus rebuilding the forks, with good synthetic fork oil. Thought I was going to have to fit different springs (bought some cbr600rr springs, which were too tight a fit), tried a load of things and it worked a treat ! The Nitron shock is a couple of mm longer, which has lifted the rear 8mm too. I haven't got a steering damper (well I have - it's on a shelf !) and apart from the occasional wiggle, it's very stable. The GSXR750WT I had when they came out was very slappy at the front and didn't come with a damper - so I'll see if I have any decent shakes before fitting anything.
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Post by jonny1bump on Jul 25, 2014 20:14:03 GMT
Yeh ven's Bike.
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Post by jonny1bump on Jul 25, 2014 20:18:38 GMT
For circuits I prefer normal aspirated, but yes as said the boilers with turbo can be awesome but for best results got to be blow through and injected which makes it more of pain too. Friend mine built one using gpz 1100 bodies, think he said nissan injectors be interesting see how that goes when its finally done. Dont forget those busa turbos have state art electronics on them its not just about big turbo lol.
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Post by jonny1bump on Jul 25, 2014 20:20:45 GMT
Its not just the headlamp its the cage too, you can make anything fit with bit of fabrication, there nothing you can just throw on.
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Post by jonny1bump on Jul 25, 2014 20:25:12 GMT
Yes tyres mess up the handling but mostly geometry and forks. Pushing it hard you defiantly need a damper. Mines custom built shock with back end up 35mm ( not with dog bone length) and lots of spring calculations and machining, front end lower by 30mm. Pretty radical but stable because suspension works so well does feel like you going over bars sometimes, but grips so well, i use quite harsh profile as well for the boiler.
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Post by jonny1bump on Jul 25, 2014 20:28:59 GMT
Can not tell you how well this went it does everything so well, but weight and geometry still massive hold back i borrowed friends race steelie and i was quicker, but then i can sit on him and im working really hard, and decking engine and exhaust can out. Well i was lets see if i still got it.
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Post by oilyspanner on Jul 25, 2014 21:53:41 GMT
Can not tell you how well this went it does everything so well, but weight and geometry still massive hold back i borrowed friends race steelie and i was quicker, but then i can sit on him and im working really hard, and decking engine and exhaust can out. Well i was lets see if i still got it. There's no doubt I could go quicker on my 1000K6, but it's great fun on the Oiler over a much broader speed range (on road) - the 2nd gens weren't far off of anything back then and could be made a lot better, progress happens, but we humans like a challenge. As you say, the electronic package on a drag Busa's is high level stuff , a real techie's dream ! Ray pointed out a few bits, loads of money spent to make it all work. That's a really radical geometry change ! Do you know what the weight distribution is now ? - although changing the bikes ride heights affects geometry more than weight transfer from what I remember. I did notice that the bike feels better the lower the front is, but mine's a bit mild ! At speed the bike does take some heft to change line and the higher c of g can be felt at lower speed - but playing on the road isn't as focused as track work - too many variables, always have to keep some in hand and I like the comfy position (getting old) so don't know how much more to change the set-up. I had a bit of a head shake again earlier (managed to get out), came around sharpish corner, then wellied it past a car, the road was uphill, a bit bumpy and the engine liked the cool evening air - so the front was very light in 2nd and 3rd - it's been mild so far - so may be a damper soon. I'm sure it won't take you long to get your track rhythm back, a bit like riding a push bike - only a lot quicker ! Keep flying the flag J1B
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Post by jonny1bump on Jul 28, 2014 11:10:56 GMT
Actually cant remember what weight distribution is now good question it was towards front heavy side if i remember correctly, Ive kept bars above yokes to try level things out a bit and being so tall helps comfort of being cramped up to. Just compare a ride back to back on a 750 to 11 with clip on positions and the difference to feel of whole bike is quite staggering. Got to admit don't think i would ever sell the 11.
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Post by oilyspanner on Jul 28, 2014 19:09:03 GMT
Top man Jonny 1b ! Really happy with mine - although I will still do odds and sods - all the changes make it more special to me. Let us know how you get on when you have a track excursion.
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