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Post by Kristjan on Aug 11, 2013 9:49:42 GMT
Someone clever has been thinking and working a lot, very nice build!
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 10:31:13 GMT
A bit in this post so stick with it All comments cool positive or negative its all good reading, that's the thing about building something a bit different, mixes it up a bit. Looking fine Strangewayz. You sticking with the GSX tank or getting an original GS one? Looks just fine on there but i know you are thinking iconic GS1000 styling cues so wondered? The tank is no big deal to me for one very important reason, this bike is an import (Americano I think) & was the stock tank for that particular model at that time. So somewhere in the world it was a GS tank although over here more thought of as GSX or an import tank. I looked for a few weeks & the only one I found was £100 but it wasn't worth that to me. Are the side panels splayed out at the back? The tops of the shocks must be further apart than on the original to accomodate the big fat tyre. It looks as though the seat area is going to be pretty wide. I have kicked the panels more out at the lower rear but yes it does look wide but then given it has a 210 tyre it's all relative, the seat design in my head is thin with chamfered edges any how. What I like about the look is the 'waist' which it gives. Looks bloody wide but deceptive because the fronts are tucked in more, if you look at this pic with the stock tail held in place the inner rear edges of the panels are only just wider than the front width of the tail section. Looking up a few posts to the pic of Froudsters stock GS shows that would mean my seat area is similar to stock. Now I fucking love this bike..... and have the utmost respect for the ability and thinking going into it and it pains me to say anything negative about it BUThiding them top shock mounts/adjusters with them side panels is sinful..!!!!! and it hides the grebarch from the side.. please don't do it.... like going to a pole dancing club and being sat behind Geoff Capes.... Get yer tits out for the lads Interesting point & your not the first person to say so, I've spent a bit of time thinking of a good answer because the principle doesn't just apply to this project. By that I mean the shock adjusters do not have to be seen to work so maybe the question is why show them off? Works on several levels. Because I designed these, got Super Larry to make them & then had the satisfaction of fabricating them in place I've got a lot out of them already (if that makes sense) & I didn't feel the need to have them obviously on display. No offence to anyone intended but if I had paid someone to make them & weld them in place I wouldn't have had the same level of satisfaction (at that point) so maybe I would want everyone to see them to get that? Also it's what the builder of a bike is looking to achieve, it's one thing to come up with some trick top shock adjusters but it's even tricker (harder) to build a one off subframe at the correct angles & set the suspension upper & lower points into that as well to match the lines of a stock side panel. I guess that called be called sum of parts. Don't get me wrong if they were totally hidden then I would prob agree more, the pics don't do the bike justice, at standing rearward anything more than side on they give up their secret. Currently when viewed from the rear the bike blows me away, it's all there to be seen 210 tyre, shock adjusters, GrebRod arch, chain cut outs... The side view is subdued compared at the moment but... Top work Strangewayz. Yoshi, I'm sure he has a plan!! (somewhere in the strange head!!) When I've finished have no doubt the side view will be the most offensive
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 10:35:18 GMT
are you gonna do a double GS tailpiece or just have the seat holding the light and plate? Not sure what you mean by double tailpiece but it's only going to be a single seater. Funny you ask as I was playing around with seats, tail pieces & lights today. My EFE front seat rubbers sit exactly on GrebRods top subframe tubes which wasn't planned & the rear of the stock GS tail piece butted up against it nicely. Trouble was when I stood back it didn't excite me enough, I've got a loose image in my head of what I want the back end (bodywork/light) to look like & I was just left well.. lets just say it didn't look radical enough . The tail piece will house the light but the number plate will be mounted elsewhere. Have a plan & almost started something tonight but didn't, maybe tomorrow but I should mount the tank properly first to avoid starting something else before finishing the last bit What I meant by a double GS tail was two of them grafted together width ways to match the tyre in the huge ass dept? As the rear of the seat is going to be wider than the front it was just a thought...to keep the std GS look in a fashion I'm listening... Try a few things out tomorrow. The view from the rear is very very nice indeed.... I understand what you mean about the adjusters not being that important a feature for you but they ARE gorgeous and shouldn't be hidden totally in my humble opinion!! I've said the same thing YJ but I think I now understand that what Mr Strange is building here is not a bling tree, it's being built from the inside out with a lot of thought and a lot of skill. People who see this bike, people who "really" appreciate what they're looking at, they'll see the art and the craft. The bolt on boys will probably walk straight past and totally miss the point, but maybe that "is" the point. This thread is a masterclass Exactly. I'll get my satisfaction out of building it & riding it & whilst I would be lying if I said I didn't want to turn a few heads when it's parked up it would be cool if that was for the right reason which for this project isn't the sun shining off the latest bolt on goody. Not intending to upset anyone by saying that, part of my motivation for this build has been the bling bike fighter scene from the States. When you look at what's being done with lots of cnc & chrome plating it's moving the scene away from the shed builder & into the hands of pro shops. I wanted to build the opposite in terms of choice of bike (Old Skool) where it was built (in a shed) & working the steel (instead of bolting on bling).
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 10:40:13 GMT
Think I might just have worked a little bit of magic this eve Not this first bit, that's what left me a bit uninspired. Started off promising with an unplanned good fit of an EFE front seat to the new subframe top rails. Something not quite right here in my mind, rear tail isn't aligned 100% as I had to tape it in place but even so. This was the killer, just looks clumsy to me. The colour of the seat doesn't help & I would for sure have it re covered & loose some foam out the height, but just isn't doing it for me. The top shock adjusters are set to the lowest ride height so I could mount the side panels to clear the shock bodies in that postion, in reality this would have approx another 50mm of air between the rear bodywork & the back tyre. I normally like the jacked look but I think because the rear body work is fairly horizontal that's what I'm not liking, needs to be at more of an angle. I said back on page 1 or 2 of this project that whilst EFE & ET rear lights are design icons (a crime to use something different on them ) I didn't feel the same way about a stock GS rear light. Had this kicking around from a prev project, GSXR K series I think, like the looks of it & has been my intention to try & use it. This eve bit of head scratching, few measurements, fired the plasma up & a bit of a tickle with grinder & file gave me this. Won't have the pointy bit at the top but making it like that allows me to trim to size on the bike. Looking at the light I think its designed to work at a 45 deg angle, so profile tubes, set a straight edge up as a guide & fire the tig up. Oohhh Matron More tea vicar. Intention is to cut & shut the stock tail piece so it follows the angle of the light from the side & when viewed from above tapers almost to a point. Not loads of room but I can cut the lugs back on the light a bit, I'm sure there's enough space to create a reasonable single seat. Might look at setting the light at an even shallower angle but that aside I think I'm onto to something
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 10:43:16 GMT
IMHO the new light is just to new and is making the rear look German, not that here is anything wrong with that. But with all your work to make the extreme modifications blend together in a sutle manner I think you should bin that light and find yourself that ET rear and light. But then agin that's just my opinion and its your vision after all... keep up the fantastic work!!! I kinda agree, light is better on a more modern fighter, not an old skool hotrod.. but I'm not criticising. can't wait to see it finished Comments respected & appreciated, it's what makes threads better. Was in the back of my mind if it was too new for what I'm doing here, think it's getting the right balance as 210 tyres, usd's & 6 potters prob aren't typical Old Skool vibe either. Must confess to being influenced by a lot of what the German guys build. There should be no rules some might say but then there are clearly things which work & others which don't, if they by default then become the 'rules' it's surely in most of the peoples nature on this site to want to bend them a bit Getting a bit deep (unusual for me : as I have thought about this, what is the GrebRod all about. The Greb bit is Grebo culture from the late 70's early 80's, when riding big muscle bikes was typically considered antisocial (as opposed to the fashion statement of today's race reps ). Rod is taking the vibe of old skool rods were its more about the engines & less about the finishes & of course using an old model to start with. Translated in my head I've ended up with aggresive muscle bike styling (if I dropped my seat rails & moved my footrests forward then what I'm building suddenly becomes less original as its more of a low rider or a chop), steel frames, aircooled engines (tuned & detailed), upgraded running gear, no expensive paintjobs, no cnc bling. That's the basics & the thing I'm playing with is this, I don't want to build this as if its rolled straight out of 79 with a just a fat tyre & beefy set of forks. It's 2008 & we're hitting the street now so what can I throw into the mix in a non cnc bling way to fuck people up a bit. I want to confuse some people, you can imagine someone rolling up behind this at the lights (210 tyre led light) thinking it's prob a gsxr No mate this is an Aircooled 8v [!middlefingers]
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 10:45:56 GMT
ditch the light it looks a cunt..... I blame myself, can't believe I wrote this ;D Comments respected & appreciated, it's what makes threads better. But.. didn't have a very good morning on it bloody waste of time which is all part of the crack & well I'll tell it as I see it. Firstly this is the type of seat I would use which has chamfered edges & quite low profile. In fact I'd love to use a piece of alloy or stainless with big holes pressed out of it... (saw a 32 Ford with low back buckets made like that earlier this year, excellent) but as the battery & Dyna are going to below the seat that would mean more work to keep them dry. Needed to rough up a tail piece so used some carboard & then sprayed it black. Edges to follow were the sides of the light 'triangle', splaying out to meet the rear of the side panel & lastly I copied the curve of the original tail piece where the seat meets it. Doesn't really give much choice of what shape you end up with. Best view is this one. The next two are just shite, I wouldn't even stick a Honda badge on the tank & park it up in town with this tail piece on it. I could put a curve on the corner where the triangle sides turn to meet the side panels & I could use a radius on the two edges of the top flat section but its the length & straightness (sharpness) of the two main triangle sides which make this not work. Too angular, doesn't match anything on the rest of the bike & far too modern a look. Haven't given up on the light yet but what I have learnt is that it's more about how the light is used than the light itself being the problem (in my head) & if I can 'house' the light in an Old Skool way that's the key to giving me the twist that I'm after. Got an idea
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 10:49:04 GMT
No doubt there's something much stranger brewing in your mind as a solution for your tailpiece but maybe this'll help- On the left we have a standard (750) GS tailpiece and on the right a strange German import version. I reckon the upswept lines on the German one would suit the Grebrod nicely. Si that German one looks a possible & yes thinking wierdly at the moment. Even got a txt not liking the light. Quick re cap, not using a GS light as I don't like them, won't stick as ET light (which wld go with the import tank) as it's not an ET in the same way I wouldn't use an EFE or slabby 7/11 light as they are in my mind to much part of the idenity of the original bikes. From the Rod side of things to try & use something is very hard because the Harley & Jap chopper / low rider boys have had the pick of that stuff for years & whilst I know a lot of you hate the label thing I do want this to have a Streetfighter styling vibe whilst avoiding the cliche bolt on units. Enough of that, latest idea time. This may not make much sense & you will have to try & imagine it with sides. Not a new idea but I can see how it will Rod by using sheetmetal to do the sides & as the surface the light will fit to will be curved by frenching it in (inset it). Straight lines killed the triangle idea so this morning thought about curving in two directions. Firstly the shape, new template behind the metal triangle. Then curved backwards. Went to proper work, thought some more, got home & fired up the plasma. Look like a mad scientist but was running out of tops to burn holes in so leathered up Getting better with the cutting lark. Getting late so quick mock up meant G clamping to the first effort which places it at too low an angle. Bastard to put the curve in it, trying to match the tyre radius but a bit more than that currently . Maybe its got something going for it. i73.photobucket.com/albums/i209/Strangewayz666/03Sep08curve6.jpg[/IMG] But not from the rear, way too much metal in the surrounds to the light cutout Will need a good trim to be anywhere near, but whilst it isn't clear from this pic I did see that from the rear the curved sides does bring into play the shape of the back of the side panels. Well you have to admit I've got patience i think you need to put some kind of side on to see if it matches the tank.... it may look ok from the back but when you have some sides on you may not think it matches the tank... the tank dont have to many curves and very much a box tank look... and to confuse the matter further yesterday I got offered a GS tank & whilst I've said it isn't that important 'to me' to have a uk spec GS tank on this I would be stupid not to try this one out for size... collecting Saturday.
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 11:02:38 GMT
Like this thread at the moment because its very real, difference between sticking pics up once your bike is built or sticking em up as you build it Ones safe the other you likely to share the pain Pic from 10 mins ago. Drove around at work this aft/eve thinking a lot about this & my biggest thought was that in my mind muscle bikes are supposed to look brutal, like they could knock down a barn door. I think that I had lost that image in trying to get the light to work, whilst I don't think the curved tail piece is shite it was on the wrong bike. So what next, took a cpl of Hot Rod mags to work as well & this pic sums up the attitude of Rod in GreRod. Think I spent too long looking at it as I thought it might work if I tried to recreate the backend but instead of where the rear wheels are use my top shock adjusters All keen tonight I've been bending a few bits of card but it looks a terrible shape from, well anywhere really ;D If I made it properly there would be the quadrant side pieces to fit as well. In the pics I couldn't get the best bend on the card as I would have needed to trim the top tubes & didn't want to. Yep you guessed it, that went in the bin as well. Next year when I park it up someones going to say to me, what was the hardest bit then, swapping the swingarm bushes out or maybe the top shock adjusters.... Nah, bloody tail piece. Won't let it beat me though. its those side panels that are the bitch. I know you are determined to keep them to MAKE it a GS, but maybe it's not for nothin they are chucked on most modded GS's....They dont seam to work with other stuff.....but if anyone can make them work I guess you can.. oh, and that rod is very cool........ Agreed. Also if you compare a Z900 tail & sides with a GS tail & sides... When I started the proj I said this. But I don't want to do a race rep, a classic resto, a subltey modified stocker or create an up todate GS as it might appear today. That's still where I'm at Yesterday for a cpl of minutes I did look at it without the side panels on but the problem is that I designed the whole 'kin bike subframe / top shock mounts around the shape of the side panel... I think if I left them off now, well I'd stick it in the corner & not finish it as it would be a different bike I'm building. At the start I found this pic, which as Z based I think is shite (because a Z without the classic tail piece ......) But I looked at the side panels & thought yeah I can make that work by raising the GS ones, & looking at the GS panels somemore & figured out the bottom curve would work with what I had planned for the top shock mounts. (I have more pics of this Z without the number plate (which ruins the lines a bit) but they have copywrite stuff all over them..) Collecting the GS tank from Fastbyme Saturday so I need to have a look with it on. Realistically I think there are two things left I can do. 1) Try & get the stock tail piece to work by extending the top subframe tubes to get a bit of length in it, Si posted above a pic of a german gs tail which has some good lines & is currently in the post to me so I'll try that as well. 2) Mininal light & tail as per the Z pic (a 'light' would fit nicely in between the top shock adjusters when viewed from the rear). Just read the Mad Max (we were posting at the same time) I like the vibe but don't think it would give me the look I'm after on this bike.
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 11:10:46 GMT
Lots of different bits in this post.. metal plate shaped (identically) to sit on the curved rear piece you are making? I've thought about a number plate that matches the curve of the top shock adjusters & fits in the gap between them. Another idea was to have a pressed metal plate & have it hanging from its top two corners off each top shock adjuster.. like a house sign free to swing. Madest idea is to plasma cut some letters & leave them with the rough burnt edges, tac them to a back plate (steel) using hidded welds & then artificially rust the back plate to get a real rusty orange... Wonder if I'd last 5 mins without getting pulled for that one, might be worth it though just to hear the official abuse I'd get don't rush it SW, i'll dig out some hotrod catalouges for ya' loadsa lights mucho cheeper...... have a browse, mayby jolt your visual/form/function/attitude starter motor........ ..........i'll also rummage through me sheds n' see what i got Looking at the lights I made before was thinking this afternoon that I could do the same again, get Super Larry to make me whats floating about in my head (just a single rear light maybe 3.5" diameter) which has the advantage that I can do a steel cover that sits over the glass & instead of it reading 'stop' can be anything I want. Did some sketches & FTW works.... under seat exhaust look is sweet , but aint it a case of been there shagged that My thoughts exactly, esp with so many bikes having them straight out the factory now.. we should be doing something different... Would like to get some of this vibe, short & crazy angles in front of the rear wheel after coming up through the monoshock hole in the swingarm. Not as finished as this pic, shorter & more violent... I've got a link that splits into 2 but if I used that would have one existing left the other right. Prob I've got is the hand made pipes I won off the evil place are very trick but don't have the link pipe running central to make it easy to 90 deg it up through the swingarm. I'd have to turn it back towards the center of the bike & then up thru the arm... not a problem to do it but maybe it would make these pipes look too messy re their route. The hound will have no legs left by the time I've worked that one out.
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 11:14:09 GMT
Could you not cut the exhaust where it goes 2 into 1, rotate it so it turns inwards, and upwards, and weld it back on? Yes I think that might work but I'd need to look some more to see what it does to the lines of the pipe. Special request time for dat Man Viz... Found this tank kicking around, hope it don't leak Frisco styleeee Oz dude isn't feeling this It's all in the eyes....
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 11:18:38 GMT
Postie dropped Miller Vincent repo light on the mat today so been having a play. Question is Frenched in which case I'd run two of them. Or piped in a bit of stainless, I'd prob only run one offset left as shown. whats going up-front i asks? Big single round bottom mount off the bottom yoke. Might use the stock shell & weld up all the holes & mod for bottom mount, be cool if it was all rusty as well. Need to squint your eyes a bit on this one, sprayed the card black which made the tape holding it together go wrinkly , but... Frenching both (only have one light today..) & by adding a gash plate I had lying around makes it look different again. Clean, smooth & minimal back end though. Good rear end stance in this first pic, emphasis the shocks leaning forward.
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 11:22:43 GMT
What else would I be doing on 12Sep08 Metallica day, wasn't at the shop for the doors to open as that would be obsessive & I'm not obsessive about anything With have progress Lost count of the number of times I've said this would look much better with a proper UK spec GS1000 styleee tank on it, ho hum Liking the lines from the front. Curvey from the rear. Having been raised at the back for the shape of the import tank I still like how it sits showing off the carbs more & has a nice line with the bottom tank edge & the line on the cam cover. Just a thought, If you keep with this idea but curve it a bit more so it repeats the curve of the side panels. the rear face would then slope forward from the vertical. the lights would then be frenched in as already done 'kin excellent spot, should have spied that... agreed & from this angle if I did that the tank rear panel also slopes similar so what you suggest ties a lot of things together. was thinking.... echo the curve on the seat and bring it up more, my drawing with a mouse is poor [!crackup] but I'm sure you get the Idea Had thought about this a bit, to get the bottom curved edge of the side panel to match the shock adjusters it made the top edge of the sidepanels above the top of the upper subframe tubes.. So I do need to raise the top edge of the rear tail piece to match, to do the mock up it was just easy to tape to the top tubes. Without getting 'themed' it's not wrong to taking styling pointers & if you compared the seat & tail piece (esp with twin lights) to a 32 roadster body the bulk of the hood, hi top buckets or body line can be in that area so to scuplt the seat to create that look & stop my arse sliding off the back works for me. Few pointers on exhausts, prob not much more than this, although there would be two, the err invisible one mirroring this to point the other side. Not exactly these angles, was just a quick pic. From this side you can see there's scope to do something maybe using the line of the side panel bottom edge. Link pipe needs to go straight up high enough (before bending) to allow for swingarm movement, so not as this pic... . . . . IMHO . . . the back will soon be covered under a huge topbox . . . Don't be so bloody stupid Looks like tomorrow I can actually get back to welding & mount the tank & side panel bottoms, have some trick dzus fastners for them. Hadn't done them prev as I wasn't sure if I would have to move the top side panel mounts a bit to suit the different tank.
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 11:25:51 GMT
Tank mounting, set the bike with a bar thru the hollow swingarm spindle & levelled on a cpl of axle stands. Super Larry had prev made me some new steel stubs for the tank rubbers, I put the stubs & rubbers into the cups in the tank tunnel & wiggled it in place, then levelled & positioned the tank. Was going to be tricky to mark the location of the stubs (for welding) but I used some paint to mark round part of the stub edge. Here is the tank off but with the rubbers & stubs still in the cups. Paint idea worked as there was enough of a curve to match the stub upto, G clamp it & tac weld in place. Hmm nice stock mig welds Tank back in place, worked well, as you can see limited space to mark the positions. Got this aircraft filler kicking about which I might use. Cut screw mounting lug off side panel & replace with Dzus fastner, need to fab a mounting mount for the Dzus retaining spring off the lower subframe tube. 387
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 12:47:46 GMT
You seem to work things out very well.. I think its more of a case of not being scared to try things out even if they're not right first time, the safe option isn't always the best. That gives me the freedom to think up things from a different angle but in doing so I can get very deep & blinkered on an idea. My way round that is review over the following days and if it stops giving me a good vibe throw it in the bin & do something else. Even if that's in front of a lot of people on OSS . I've still got questions in my head about the lights / tail piece, things to try I sat down with Super Larry a month ago & worked out how to fit the front tank mounts & he turned up what I needed so when I came to do it piece of piss. Had to loose 3mm off each one due to the GS tank tunnel being narrower than the import but hey you make your own luck & that was an easy 'mod' to do re change of tank. I see where your coming from now m8 and understand a little better, the thought process you use... I'm sure reading this live at times people have thought (re lights / tail piece) what the fuck are you doing, but it's just my way. Just because I'm going down a route doesn't mean it will stick if I don't like the look when I've had time to walk round it, look at the pics, think about it some more. It is good to get other people's input esp when something's proving hard work to crack, easy to get too close & someone will say 'you could follow that line as well', things like that can make a big difference. I do a lot of mock ups & if you went back thru this thread there's the odd pic which is unrelated to what I'm doing on the bike at the time. Like the exhaust pics, I'm way off doing anything with that but already thinking about things as you have to look at a bike as a whole to get it to flow right. Most stuff I've sorted out in my head by the time I get to fab it, where possible. It threw me that the body shape around the big led light didn't work as I had always though it would and that was one thing which until I got down to making it I wouldn't know. Just had a good feel about it from the shape but not to be.
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Post by captain chaos on Aug 11, 2013 12:51:11 GMT
Cut & profiled a couple of tubes to triangulate the subframe area re fat arse & forces from the twin shocks and just as a tease but it isn't going to happen Stock tail does look better with the proper GS tank (instead of the import) but if I did use I'd be going down the 'traditional' look & this proj is about something else. Does look rude though.. Oh arse, bollocks, just done something that has really thrown that cat amongst the pigeons, or in this house the tail piece at the Dobermann... In my head I've got another progression of the twin Vincent stop lights idea which wld be one bigger single light made by Super Larry & the same short 'hot rod' bodywork made out of steel but taking into account comments re taller, matching the lines of the side panel back edge, etc. Lot of work & bitch to make as some of the bodywork curves would need the sheet metal stretching... Simon #287 had posted me a German model GS tail & I've just taped it in place, how good does the bike look with it on (Has a boxy compartment which you'd cut out to flush fit stocko light) This next pic is stock GS1000 which I think is too blocky to work with what I've done to the side panels, etc. Direct comparison, Si's seat which has much better lines. Despite what I've said I'm not sure I can ignore how good I think that actually works with the lines (esp tank). The slope that would be the back of the seat area is questionable but that wouldn't be seen as the seat would there...
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