gsryder
Velociraptor
Posts: 34
Reg: Aug 22, 2013 18:31:24 GMT
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Post by gsryder on Mar 5, 2015 21:58:10 GMT
Been searching everywhere, thought i read some where about tapping/threading the engine cases and useing bolts to fasten the engine to the frame brackets as opposed to the original long through bolts and pinching the cases between the brackets......any thoughts to this....benefit to stiffening the frame.....danger of stressing and cracking the cases?
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Post by slim on Mar 6, 2015 12:35:10 GMT
No benefit I can see & you will be weakening/stressing the cases which can never be good, if you need a stiffer frame brace it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Reg: Apr 26, 2024 19:25:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 14:41:54 GMT
it does need some flex ? as it would snap/break ? if you need it that stiff get some viagra oss-popcorn
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Post by pedda on Mar 6, 2015 15:26:51 GMT
There have been special frame manufacturers who took the engine as a bearing moment into the frame rather than have it just as a passanger. So no fear - if you want, you can do it. What engine/ frams assy are you talking about?
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Post by kokolis on Mar 6, 2015 15:28:39 GMT
Vibration will get your teeth out.
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Post by arnout on Mar 6, 2015 21:11:30 GMT
Well.. FWIW, I've always been a fan of trying to use the engine on a GSX as a stressed member (huhhuh) and so to help stiffen up (huhhuh) the frame.. As the engine is a relatively unflexible lump being supported in a relatively flexible tubular frame, it seems very logically to me to make use of what's there already.. So yeah, all for it.. For me I worked on making the motor mounts more rigid so these would transmit the forces to the engine instead of bending/flexing.. A truely stressed member mounted engine though would include mounts between the cylinder head to the headstock (like on a Yam TR1), but that was too extreme even for me.. Instead I reinforced the part of the frame leading up to the mounts that were made more rigid.. As far as vibration goes, the engine is already mounted solid with no rubber cushions, so it can't get any worse.. Anyway.. Here's ( click) a pic of the frame on my Kat to get an overall idea.. ..So braced part of the frame leading up to the lower place engine mounts that have been made more rigid.. Front: Added an extra set of mounts to the outside of the down tubes.. These are agled inwards so actually creating a triangular shape in crossection.. Rear: Added an extra mount close to the engine and onto a new crossmember.. (An EFE has this kind of mount).. So.. IMHO the stock frame has lots of room for improvement.. Making the engine a stressed member is one important part of it.. Downside? Frame does get a bit heavier with the extra steel.. Upside or "does it work?" Well.. I'm not keen to let anybody ride my bike, but to me the bike feels incredible rigid.. Modern USD forks and a beefy swingarm help a lot too, but the chassis feels very sharp and direct.. (But than again I'm used to a fat EFE.. that has some bracing too actually..)
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Post by pedda on Mar 6, 2015 21:56:49 GMT
You can buy rigid engine mounts off the shelf in Japan, btw. Went that route with my current Kat with self made mounts as well. No extra stiffening of the frame necessary. Little effort - good effect.
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gsryder
Velociraptor
Posts: 34
Reg: Aug 22, 2013 18:31:24 GMT
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Post by gsryder on Mar 7, 2015 1:08:59 GMT
Already, had the standard frame stiffening learned from here for the last 3 years or so but i am rebuilding the engine.....well everything actually. Sometimes its the little bit here little bit there across the board that adds up the most at the end of a project. Thanks for the replies and details. I will try to get a pic up
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gsryder
Velociraptor
Posts: 34
Reg: Aug 22, 2013 18:31:24 GMT
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Post by gsryder on Mar 7, 2015 1:16:58 GMT
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Post by captain chaos on Mar 7, 2015 10:02:50 GMT
nice seat heating
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gsryder
Velociraptor
Posts: 34
Reg: Aug 22, 2013 18:31:24 GMT
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Post by gsryder on Mar 7, 2015 14:19:19 GMT
Lol! There are some pics around here somewhere of the last version i put a little heat shield over it....all my electrics go right above it....even the battery
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Post by sibag on Mar 11, 2015 11:04:52 GMT
There have been special frame manufacturers who took the engine as a bearing moment into the frame rather than have it just as a passanger. So no fear - if you want, you can do it. What engine/ frams assy are you talking about? I think the Bimota SB3 uses the engine as a stressed member.
Those crazy Italians
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Post by bluedog59 on Mar 11, 2015 17:59:46 GMT
Technically, I think the SB3 frame is a semi stressed member as the frame also connects front to back directly as well as via the engine. The HCS ASP Yamaha I have is a true stressed member as the front swingarm (or swinging fork if we're being pedantic) bolts to the front of the engine and the rear one to the rear off the engine with no other structural connections. Later versions did connect front to rear as the engine was never designed to carry all the frame loads. However, even on mine the engine mounts have not been threaded but are bolts through. Threading the holes would (I would have though ) weaken the mount by introducing a stress raiser in the form of the thread into a mount not designed to take that sort of load in the first place.
Note. My terminology may not be perfect but you get what I mean.
With regard to using the engine to help brace the frame. I would say it's a useful addition, I had an old CB900 with a choice of engines, the standard one with a rubber front mount and the other a full, ex works, RSC engine with solid mounts. The handling was far less bad (it was never good) with the RSC engine despite the extra BHP.
If you want to use the engine I would go for stronger mounting plates but retain through bolts and brace the frame as well. The mounting points are only as strong as the frame they attach to.
The above is only my opinion and I'm more than interested in other, more learned, views.
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gsryder
Velociraptor
Posts: 34
Reg: Aug 22, 2013 18:31:24 GMT
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Post by gsryder on Mar 12, 2015 3:04:45 GMT
Would using a slightly larger diameter bolt, so as to not be such a sloppy fit through the cases be a safer bet. I may be thinking to much into this but with going through all the trouble of the frame bracing this seems to be a weak area....and over the last few years i noticed them loosening ocasionaly even with lock tight. And the paint slightly rubbed on the inside of the brackets from apparent shifting around
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Post by kokolis on Mar 14, 2015 16:51:51 GMT
Two different frame constructions The suzuki has a backbone stifness. The bimota has to be bolt on a frame to be rigid
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