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Post by katana on Aug 7, 2013 18:09:19 GMT
One other thing you could try is reducing the ign timing at cranking rpm to maybe 0 degrees - that should avoid the slow down effect and as soon as it fires the rpm increases and the ignition is restored to normal figures?
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Post by danm54 on Aug 8, 2013 9:42:48 GMT
Its not picking up an rpm signal to begin with so the ecu doesn't know the engine is turning over at all. The 24-1 wheel doesn't work either, not even a blip of a reading. Here's the trace Now you can see the missing tooth on the right of the trace, it happens to be very close to the same gap as the teeth on the compression stroke though so that could be throwing it. Maybe I need a 24-2 wheel or possibly move the missing tooth so it passes when the engine is cranking the slowest. As long as it doesn't leave too big a gap and throw the ecu out.
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Post by Devilman on Aug 8, 2013 14:41:38 GMT
yup, looking at that trace your going to have to resort to a -2 trigger wheel to get a big enough gap for the ECU to notice it as a triggering event and not just a slowdown of RPM due to compression, or as katana said, swap to a square-wave setup where amplitude is irrelevant.
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Post by danm54 on Aug 8, 2013 19:08:46 GMT
Its working!
Ended up with a 24-3 wheel and raising the cranking pulse tolerance to 60% instead of 50% and it picks up a nice rpm signal now.
Managed to forget to set the required fuel and ended up flooding it so I have to clean the plugs up tomorrow then it should run. Can set the fueling etc and see if it rides better now.
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Post by Devilman on Aug 9, 2013 4:16:40 GMT
Did you opt straight for a -3 wheel for sake of a big gap the ECU would see, or did you try a -2 first and have no luck with it?
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Post by danm54 on Aug 9, 2013 6:55:21 GMT
Tried -2 first. It shown up a big gap on the oscilloscope trace but the ecu didn't see it.
I didn't play with settings before taking another tooth off though so it may have been able to read it with some playing around. The bigger gap should be fine though.
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Post by nitro on Aug 9, 2013 14:24:54 GMT
May be choose an other material. You have to take softest steel you can get with best magnetic properties. No stainless! May be also a bit thicker material could help.
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Post by danm54 on Aug 11, 2013 18:15:32 GMT
Its working now nitro, not sure on the exact properties of the steel as it was a bit under the bench!
My lambda always reads 12.1 now so I have another on the way. Its all set right in tunerstudio and used to work so I may have killed it!
The bike is running though, didn't like to idle smoothly so I've remade the spark advance table, should stay at 38 degrees around idle. With that stable it'll hopefully make it easier to set the idle using the pulse width and throttle position.
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Post by katana on Aug 11, 2013 21:56:22 GMT
38 degrees is massively advanced for idle! I would have expected nearer 10 degrees on closed static throttle?
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Post by danm54 on Aug 11, 2013 22:17:39 GMT
You don't think it'll run like that?
Its 12 degrees standard I think but I just need it to stop moving while I'm tuning the idle settings. Its all over the place at the minute and its making getting a smooth idle near impossible.
I could back it all off to 12 and set it up there, then alter it above 2k once its set.
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Post by katana on Aug 12, 2013 18:24:49 GMT
It'll probably run but starting may be a problem as you'll be building significant cylinder pressure BTDC! The Funnybike used static 34 deg timing and needed 24v offboard starting! I mapped my Gixxer from bare map with a 'normal' curve in a 2D format ie. applied the same timing to each load point with increased timing set against rpm. Too much advance with not enough fuel will run bad/hot so making you add fuel to compensate which then may be to rich when you pull back the timing! If you keep the timing 'big' numbers conservative, it'll build in a factor of safety to add a bit more when the fuelling is closer. Forget a smooth idle until the fuelling is 50-75% done - if it hunts around it won't hurt anything - then you can fine tune. Well, that's how i'd do it.
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Post by danm54 on Aug 12, 2013 19:56:53 GMT
I've pulled it back to 12 degrees around idle. I've also looked at the VE and AFR table, both tables stopped at 100Kpa and 6000rpm so I've put them up to 218Kpa and 11000rpm the same as the spark table.
I'll have to do more homework on the VE table but the supplied one should keep it running for now, at least until I've set the idle and spark table a bit closer.
With the lambda down I can't even set idle fuelling so I'm waiting on that currently.
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Post by mattturbocar on Aug 12, 2013 21:41:28 GMT
If you want a nice strong idle then set it to 15deg at 800rpm, 12deg at 1000rpm. Similarly have the fueling increase below 1000rpm. That is a simple way of getting a nice strong idle (idea stolen from Dave Walker, but it works well).
The reason to have low idle advance is that if you have too much advance then you have to close down the throttle stop so far that you will struggle with a stable idle and initial progression.
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Post by nitro on Aug 13, 2013 12:36:29 GMT
If you want a nice strong idle then set it to 15deg at 800rpm, 12deg at 1000rpm. Similarly have the fueling increase below 1000rpm. That is a simple way of getting a nice strong idle (idea stolen from Dave Walker, but it works well). The reason to have low idle advance is that if you have too much advance then you have to close down the throttle stop so far that you will struggle with a stable idle and initial progression. I made simular setting for stronger igle (12 until 1000rpm and 10 from 1200rpm), but I don´t had to steal the idea Although my ecu has it´s own idle control via advance (which works perfect!) I use this method, because I still see if there is something wrong with the engine (leaking valve etc...). With the idle control it would rise the advance/idle until set value and I will notice nothing.
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Post by danm54 on Aug 24, 2013 18:04:23 GMT
Well I'm still battling problems!
Had a week when the damn thing just wouldn't start no matter what I done.
I reflashed the ECU and started again from the stock base map, new set of plugs and it fired right up.
My lambda is currently playing up though, the AFR gauge in Tunerstudio sits at 12.10 after start and just stays there. The lambda controller does lose connection with the laptop after start though so I'm wondering if this is the issue.
I got it to idle nice this morning even without a good lambda but now it runs like crap, no idea why its so fussy.
Hopefully I can get the lambda issue sorted soon, get a nice idle then get it set up on a dyno.
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