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Post by scara on May 20, 2014 6:59:30 GMT
Well done! But looks like the airfilter pipe needs more space than the filter itself AS you all know, I welcome your comments and your thoughts with open arms. Although when I read this, I must say I was concerned. I tried out the fairing and your right, it didn't work too well at all. Suffice to say, I changed it.
Made the mods necessary to the fairing panel using a cardboard template, made it out of sheet metal and have begun the graft.
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Post by scara on Jun 1, 2014 11:28:01 GMT
Well, this weekend is the Queens Birthday down Under. yesterday and today, spent preparing for a first start up. A few minor details plagued us, but in the end, we prospered. I share with you all, the first start up, which contains all the natural elements of a brand new painted motor and exhaust system for your personal enjoyment. For now, I can rest easy that the work bore fruit, initially I was concerned that I expected too much, but then when he roared into life, my fears were left behind, and I became calm and focused, BUT we still have a long way to go. tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=adkBqYNLltv9vTFDuP7khoh4l5k2TGxc
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Post by captain chaos on Jun 1, 2014 11:38:51 GMT
(...) which contains all the natural elements of a brand new painted motor and exhaust system for your personal enjoyment. I can't smell anything. Well done though.
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Post by scara on Jun 18, 2014 23:19:27 GMT
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Post by scara on Jun 29, 2014 3:23:14 GMT
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Post by scara on Jul 3, 2014 6:51:41 GMT
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Post by scara on Jul 14, 2014 10:16:56 GMT
Morning lads. Got a genuine issue Im hoping you can afford me some experience and resolve. On start up initially, motor fired up with fueling issues. Continued to drown - Dropped idle pressure to 3 psi, still flooding but no where near as bad. Will be trying 1-2 psi this weekend. Then, once left to sit, the next day started it up, and a flood of oil came out the pipes for several minutes. Switched off. Checked all drain lines, ensured adequate hose sizing. Im using -8AN from turbo to sump. Re run line to top of engine crankcase instead. Same issue developed. Bought the new scavenger pump. Its from Boostdoctor is a 201P and can move 90gpm as shown in the above picture. Same thing is happening, but not as bad. Am I to assume that the external oil pump needs to be separate to the ignition switch for manual operation to excavate the oil lines between start ups, ridding myself of this annoying problem or has anyone fitted inline check valves both supply and return ? Im stumped. It appears to have been a common issue with some 11's and B12's Speak to me peeps, need an assist here. cheers
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Post by captain chaos on Jul 14, 2014 10:32:29 GMT
maybe the oil feed to the turbine needs to be restricted more? What size restriction is in there now?
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Post by slingy1052 on Jul 14, 2014 12:30:00 GMT
Ok, i have battling oiling issues for fucking ages now as well and have learned a few things along the way. 1) When using a paddock stand, the bike is upright so the oil is level from side to side in the sump, this combined with the arse high stance puts the oil level in the sump above higher than the banjo bolt below the ignition cover. This can be seen in your side on photo on page 9. Also, if you strike a line when the bike is at this angle from the site glass to the centre of the turbo, you'll see its pretty much the same. So, even though you've run the oil line in a nice loop above the oil level (as i did as well), once you've run the engine, all the oil lines and gallery's fill with oil. You stop the engine, and because that loop of pipe is full of oil, and the point feeding it (the banjo bolt under the ignition cover) is under the oil level, it will continue to syphon oil until its lowered the sump oil level enough to suck air and break the syphon effect. 2) if its started and stored on the side stand only, then the oil sits at an angle in the sump and the banjo bolt under the ign cover is not under oil, so you start the bike, all the oil gallery's in the whole engine fill. You stop the engine, for the time it takes for all the gallery's to drain back to the sump there is oil above the turbo still, so for about 10 -15 Min's while this is happening oil will still keep dribbling into the turbo. You should have enough volume of pipe between your turbo and the scavenge pump to cope with this, so no biggy. Then once this drain back stops, the air in the gallery that feeds the banjo bolt stops the syphon effect. 3) So long and short of it, don't run the bike on the paddock stand, or if you do, always leave it on the side stand after running to break the syphon effect. 4) Or Fit an anti syphon valve. Basically a one way valve with a low crack pressure. I think RB racing make one with a 1psi crack pressure for the job. I tried to make one that didn't really work, so have just modified an old FPR i had kicking around to do the job which seems to work really well. 5) Or, take the oil supply from somewhere high on the engine, like the head, then all you'll ever get is the oil volume of the supply line emptying through the turbo, no syphon effect, no valves, simples. But , the obvious choice of the cam end bungs are too low a pressure due to the inbuilt restrictors in the block, so may be the little cooler circuit bolt would be better, or the oil cooler maybe.
Hope all this shit makes sense
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Post by scara on Jul 14, 2014 13:45:51 GMT
maybe the oil feed to the turbine needs to be restricted more? What size restriction is in there now? Hey Ho Capt. I am not running any restrictors at this time in the supply line.
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Post by scara on Jul 14, 2014 14:02:38 GMT
Ok, i have battling oiling issues for fucking ages now as well and have learned a few things along the way. 1) When using a paddock stand, the bike is upright so the oil is level from side to side in the sump, this combined with the arse high stance puts the oil level in the sump above higher than the banjo bolt below the ignition cover. This can be seen in your side on photo on page 9. Also, if you strike a line when the bike is at this angle from the site glass to the centre of the turbo, you'll see its pretty much the same. So, even though you've run the oil line in a nice loop above the oil level (as i did as well), once you've run the engine, all the oil lines and gallery's fill with oil. You stop the engine, and because that loop of pipe is full of oil, and the point feeding it (the banjo bolt under the ignition cover) is under the oil level, it will continue to syphon oil until its lowered the sump oil level enough to suck air and break the syphon effect. 2) if its started and stored on the side stand only, then the oil sits at an angle in the sump and the banjo bolt under the ign cover is not under oil, so you start the bike, all the oil gallery's in the whole engine fill. You stop the engine, for the time it takes for all the gallery's to drain back to the sump there is oil above the turbo still, so for about 10 -15 Min's while this is happening oil will still keep dribbling into the turbo. You should have enough volume of pipe between your turbo and the scavenge pump to cope with this, so no biggy. Then once this drain back stops, the air in the gallery that feeds the banjo bolt stops the syphon effect. 3) So long and short of it, don't run the bike on the paddock stand, or if you do, always leave it on the side stand after running to break the syphon effect. 4) Or Fit an anti syphon valve. Basically a one way valve with a low crack pressure. I think RB racing make one with a 1psi crack pressure for the job. I tried to make one that didn't really work, so have just modified an old FPR i had kicking around to do the job which seems to work really well. 5) Or, take the oil supply from somewhere high on the engine, like the head, then all you'll ever get is the oil volume of the supply line emptying through the turbo, no syphon effect, no valves, simples. But , the obvious choice of the cam end bungs are too low a pressure due to the inbuilt restrictors in the block, so may be the little cooler circuit bolt would be better, or the oil cooler maybe. Hope all this shit makes sense Okey dokey then. taking all your points 1 at a time. 1). I agree with everything there, all makes good sense. However, in my case, there should be nothing in the drain line between the turbo and the scavenger pump at all. I have fitted a timer which runs for 60 seconds after the engine has stopped running evacuating (I hope) any and all oil in THAT line at least. The supply is however a different ball of wax. I agree with your direction of thought completely, therefore one could fit a closed non return valve in THAT line, and only opens over say 3 psi of oil pressure or greater, lessening the oil in the line to only whats in the line itself, and thats only 18" long at best. Would you not agree ? 2). Starting and stopping on the side stand would only be performed when im out riding the bike, every other time, would be on race stands as you see in the pics. I do so see your valid points made and where the error is, for sure for sure, with thanks. 3). We got that covered - all good there now. 4). The anti syphon valve / non return valve seems to make perfect sense, excellent. 5), Taking the oil supply from somewhere else may be an issue. As you have pointed out, lower oil pressure would not make for good turbo relations. These turbo's require 20 psi plus in most instances for good bearing operation. In saying that, I have not as yet measured the oil pressure supply flow from the motor, although a hi volume pump was fitted. Using either of the cooler bolts which fit into the sump pan, would definitely be useful in that it is LOWER than the turbo, hence no drain into the turbo via the supply line (one would think). This is definitely good information gents. Thank you so very much for sharing with me. I am feeling more positive about this now. It will take me a few days maybe even a week or two to get it all together,, and I will report back to you with hopefully positive results. Excellent, excellent. slingy1052 and the CApt - *tilts visor* to you both, cheers lads
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Post by scara on Jul 14, 2014 15:09:28 GMT
slingy1052; @captain chaos; In between yesterday and today, I sent an email to HAHN RACECRAFT in the USA. They are turbo bike specialists. Just got an email from Adam at HAHN RACECRAFT. Here's what he had to say: Hey Ian, It would appear your issue is the draining of oil into the turbo after the engine shuts off. The way to fix this is to actually move the scavenging pump as far away from the turbo as possible, to have a large amount of volume in between the turbo/pump. This will give that residual oil flow after shutdown a place to reside, other than the turbo. It may also help to add a breather line to that oil drain too. Basically, if a half cup of oil is draining into the turbo after the engine shuts off, you need more than a half cup of volume between the turbo and the scavenging pump. Hope this helps. Adam
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Post by captain chaos on Jul 14, 2014 18:28:11 GMT
first restrict the oil feed to the turbo, a 0,5mm jet should do it. Oil that doesn't reach the turbo doesn't need to be drained from it.
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Post by katana on Jul 14, 2014 18:43:46 GMT
A very detailed analysis of the problem. I would definitely agree that a form of siphon break would be beneficial - used a 1psi crack one way valve on mine but simple physics confirms any siphon is actually pulling 14.7psi ie. atmospheric pressure. Running the external pump after shut down isn't just pulling oil from the supply line but unless air can get into the main crankcase oil galleries and then pump, you've got all that volume to draw from!
A tee in the supply line with a restricted bleed off back to the upper crankcase and above natural oil level will stop a siphon very quickly. Taking the oil supply from the head cooling lines could work at the crankcase Y joint. Its lower pressure but higher volume flow and once it reaches the turbo its restricted inlet will increase the pressure naturally - they are usually around 40psi so more than adequate. These lines drain relatively easily so would minimise siphon action!
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Post by scara on Dec 11, 2014 3:03:06 GMT
Morning chaps. Been a long time I know, but life gets in the way when you least expect it. Over the past 8 months I haven't made progress at all suffice to say I got a check valve fitted inline and had the banjo bolt from the engine under the ignition cover threaded for a Mikuni Jet as suggested by the guys here, with thanks. I hate to admit it but I wont be working on the bike until the new year, putting all the parts in etc. When I do, I will get back to you with a further update. Apologises for the prolonged delay, but sometimes it cannot be helped Take care stay safe over the break, catch you in the New Year peeps
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