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Post by strangewayz on Jun 4, 2014 20:06:37 GMT
It's your bike & your thread, not my place to give you a lecture on how you've done something, cool that your getting your hands dirty & stuck in because that's what this site is all about.
As I know a little I questioned the 190 / 6" rim in a 226mm frame using a 530 chain.
With what you said about widening the frame 11mm (5.5mm each side) that does now make sense because at 237mm it's similar to a stock EFE (236mm) that a 190 / 6" rim / 530 chain combo does fit in.
Chain run looks straight in the pics, yeah 17 tooth will give you better options on swingarm angle.
Thanks for answering my question.
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Post by B2BC on Jun 4, 2014 20:25:26 GMT
It's your bike & your thread, not my place to give you a lecture on how you've done something, cool that your getting your hands dirty & stuck in because that's what this site is all about. As I know a little I questioned the 190 / 6" rim in a 226mm frame using a 530 chain. With what you said about widening the frame 11mm (5.5mm each side) that does now make sense because at 237mm it's similar to a stock EFE (236mm) that a 190 / 6" rim / 530 chain combo does fit in. Chain run looks straight in the pics, yeah 17 tooth will give you better options on swingarm angle. Thanks for answering my question. i did ask a few people who i know that build bikes locally to me one being speedfab international based in west brom i asked them all the same about wideneing a frame a got same response by them saying add a extra brace and double check its widened same either side. cant see it being a danger but im sure if something wrong ill find out when i ride it, probly to late by then lol. the extended arm wheel sprockets and tophat spacers made to reduce a 20mm spindal to 16mm are out of my efe pretty sure i measured 237mm on efe but then again give or take a mm could of been 236mm only problem i now face is angle of swingarm if its to low wont have enough clearance on subframe when takeing pillion, and if i raise it looks like engine is to much of a angle leaning forward. so how do i go about setting swingarm does the bottom frame rail have to be straight when bike is upright as at the moment it higher at the rear than the front so my sump is higher at the back and klow at the front will this be a problem?
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Post by strangewayz on Jun 4, 2014 22:00:20 GMT
When I build up one of these old bikes I always try to get it to steer quicker than it did as stock & also make it look more aggressive, by product of that tends to be that the frame rails under the engine slope forwards. So yeah when I put a more modern front end in & give it a bit more swingarm angle that happens but it also gives me more of the look or stance that I want.
Some people though do try to get them level with the ground.
Either is not wrong, just depends what your preference is.
At the angles we are talking I always considered there to be enough oil in the engine for it not to cause problem with lubrication.
Setting the swingarm angle in the real world of what we are doing comes down to how much if any of the chain you mind resting on the arm.
Guess you are aware that with the bike sitting under it's own weight you should still be able to lift the back of the bike up which will then fully extend the shock (sag etc). When you sit on the bike of course the shock compresses more but the shock may extend fully when you ride over hollows in the road as that's what keeps the wheel in contact with the road.
Some people will set the chain so it touches the arm with the weight of the bike compressing the shock on the basis that when they sit on the bike the chain will clear the arm most of the time... & maybe they don't do many miles.
The chain will also move around somewhat when it is loaded / unloaded, you can use a jockey wheel to control some of this.
On my 711 I unloaded the suspension with a jack & then adjusted the ride height so that the chain did not touch the arm at all with the shock fully extended, I do not have a 'chain rubber' on the arm, do have an adjustable top shock mount & also have the benefit of having an adjustable swingarm pivot so in this case I had dropped the spindle 5mm (which of course means the whole front of the arm drops 5mm).
If your shock ride height is not going to be adjustable once in place (adjustable doglegs?) then you are not able to play as much with setup & have to nail it down when fabricating / welding. You probably won't go much wrong if at this stage you had the chain not quite touching the arm, because without anything being welded in place there is no bike weight compressing the shock, as soon as it does the chain lifts off the arm. If you are using this method it really helps to setup with the sprocket sizes you are going to use.
If that does not give you enough angle you then have to gamble by having more of the chain touching the arm when you weld the monoshock up.
So just to clarify that's some ways of trying to get the most swingarm angle you want to live with whilst accepting that at times the chain is probably going to touch the arm. If you don't want the chain to touch the arm ever then adapt what I have said above to give you more clearance, to give you an idea of what that looks like check what a stock bike sits like under it's own weight.
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Post by B2BC on Jun 5, 2014 7:23:52 GMT
ok i see what you mean, with the angle im setting it at once i use a 17t front sprocket and put the usd,s in the chain clears top of swingarm by 1mm under its own weight, so when i sit on it there should be more clearance , but im having to use a 330mm hayabusa shock set to hard so the tyre doesnt touch the underneath of subframe when carrying a pillion , well thats the thought anyway.
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Post by kiwi on Jun 5, 2014 8:12:58 GMT
I'm glad Al brought up the chain alignment as i have fitted a 5.5 with 180, but machined down rear sprocket carrier and offset front running 520 conversion and its misses both frame and tyre but only by a few mm's , and also thought how did you manage a 6" rim (but now you've explained SIMPLES). I think you will more likely have clearance problems with tyre and rear light + number plate area, only because you have shortened frame + seat, but you could alter rear of frame like Al did to porky's which has raised up the back end of frame.
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Post by strangewayz on Jun 5, 2014 8:35:19 GMT
ok i see what you mean, with the angle im setting it at once i use a 17t front sprocket and put the usd,s in the chain clears top of swingarm by 1mm under its own weight, so when i sit on it there should be more clearance , but im having to use a 330mm hayabusa shock set to hard so the tyre doesnt touch the underneath of subframe when carrying a pillion , well thats the thought anyway. It's at this stage of the build when you want to get certain things right, you're putting a few £k into this so I can't understand designing in a shock that's too hard. Rear suspension settings have a huge part to play in how a bike will handle & ride so for me that's not good. That said it 'may be' that you do not actually have the problem you think you do. Other than being shorter your subframe is stock & there are enough mono shocked Kat's, modified twin shock Kats & of course stock Kats that have a normal range of rear suspension movement without the tyre hitting the subframe. First thing to check / understand is how much travel the shock you are using has, a lot of that information you can find online. Knowing that figure you can then move the swingarm upwards that value (measured where the shock would sit) & see how much travel that equates to at the wheel spindle.... Which of course will tell you if you do actually have a tyre / subframe issue. if so you could use a different shock that has less travel... If you drop the frame right down on the tyre the insides of the gussets on the top subframe tube may or will touch a 190 depending how wide that 190 actually is. If you measure the clearance or lack of then a different tyre choice could solve this problem. My Michelin Power Pure 190 measures 195 on a 6" rim. Would a 180 solve any issue here ? Likewise reworking the gussets ie cut & shut so the inside faces are moved slightly outwards would give more room but still look stock from the side of the bike. If it was me I would try to understand the extent of the problem better with a bit of math & then use either a different mix of parts or rework the frame instead of designing in at this stage a shock that is set way too hard to limit suspension travel.
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Post by B2BC on Jun 5, 2014 15:08:45 GMT
not much done today only had few hours shock stil aint arrived so cant do the shock mounts yet but i did do the braces on subframe and 2 other braces on frame its only tac welded in atm but it will be sent away to get tig welded when its all ready
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Post by gsx on Jun 5, 2014 15:38:37 GMT
It's your bike & your thread, not my place to give you a lecture on how you've done something, cool that your getting your hands dirty & stuck in because that's what this site is all about. As I know a little I questioned the 190 / 6" rim in a 226mm frame using a 530 chain. With what you said about widening the frame 11mm (5.5mm each side) that does now make sense because at 237mm it's similar to a stock EFE (236mm) that a 190 / 6" rim / 530 chain combo does fit in. Chain run looks straight in the pics, yeah 17 tooth will give you better options on swingarm angle. Thanks for answering my question.
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Post by gsx on Jun 5, 2014 15:46:12 GMT
Hi just been thinking bout this on off all day .sad.com But if a 180 only just and I mean just clears a 190 with correct chain alignment would foul the frame , yes? If you have widened the frame 10 mm overall you should if all is right have 5 to 6 mm clearance not 10 can't get me head round this .even allowing for 5mm engine spacers you shouldn't have 10mm clearance Not trying to piss on your bonfire but more curious. like what your trying to achieve though
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Post by gsx on Jun 5, 2014 15:49:58 GMT
Oh forgot to mention that I jacked the frame on a mates gs 1000 chop years ago but it moved one side out and the other didn't
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Post by B2BC on Jun 5, 2014 15:57:51 GMT
Hi just been thinking bout this on off all day .sad.com But if a 180 only just and I mean just clears a 190 with correct chain alignment would foul the frame , yes? If you have widened the frame 10 mm overall you should if all is right have 5 to 6 mm clearance not 10 can't get me head round this .even allowing for 5mm engine spacers you shouldn't have 10mm clearance Not trying to piss on your bonfire but more curious. like what your trying to achieve though it kinda had be baffled aswell but then i worked it outvive got 5.5mm top hat spacers either side of swinger my 530 chain only slightly over hangs swingarm so say that 5mm clearance then the pivot point on frame sticks out a bit by about 4mm so overall that works out to 9mm clearance
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Post by B2BC on Jun 5, 2014 16:01:28 GMT
Oh forgot to mention that I jacked the frame on a mates gs 1000 chop years ago but it moved one side out and the other didn't thats what happened to me so i had to bolt down the one side of the frame to the floor and jack out the opposite side and i also used the bottom engine mounts to hold engine central
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Post by gsx on Jun 5, 2014 16:15:56 GMT
What's 5 mm between friends lol Got an efe with 6inch kawasaki rear wheel , got it all lined up with offset sprocket but back wheel is still half inch out!and can't machine the carrier but gotta spare busa wheel. Love the build and the speed of it , interested in the mono shock mount bit , not done it me self either
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Post by B2BC on Jun 5, 2014 16:37:26 GMT
been told few ways of doing the mounts for shock but play it safe im going to use same material thats on efe and the mounts on efe are 8mm steel so the mounts are going to be 8mm on the kat first thing to do is weld in the new tubes for top and bottom mounts to go on but im still deciding if i need to get thicker tube as i was going to use 5mm but considering the orinal was only3mm 5mm tube should be ok but it will have engine mount and shock mount on same tube so was wondering if i need thicker but efe is only 4mm thick so maybe im just being abit to over cautious lol
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wraith
Tyrannosaurus Rex
anything can be done
Posts: 139
Bikes: Katana 2x GS1000
Reg: May 2, 2014 17:50:13 GMT
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Post by wraith on Jun 5, 2014 17:11:39 GMT
This is how I did the mount on my Kat
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